all 44 comments

[–]MenAreMen 23 insightful - 9 fun23 insightful - 8 fun24 insightful - 9 fun -  (1 child)

Yes! They always act like we’re denying their humanity. No, I know you’re a human. I’m just saying that you’re not a woman, I can see your dick print through your dress, Kevin

[–]LasagnaRossa 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Some people mix the right to be respected with the right to be believed. No dude, I respect your humanity but I still think you believe in a bunch of bullishit theories.

[–][deleted] 19 insightful - 11 fun19 insightful - 10 fun20 insightful - 11 fun -  (3 children)

genuflecting

Genderflecting sorry

[–]Britishbulldog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m probably being thick, but what’s genderflecting?

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd imagine it's bowing down or taking the knee to show worshipful reverence, total respect and complete adherence to all the tenets of gender ideology.

[–]Daraincork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is bending one's knee. Like a curtsy. We old Catholics remember it well.

[–]endless_assfluff 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Oh, totally. Everyone does. Trans people should not be bullied for gender non-conformity. They should not be beaten. They have the right to express themselves. In real life, I give trans people the benefit of the doubt, call them by their preferred pronouns, listen to their experiences, emotionally support them through those struggles, etc.

What they do not have the right to do is exert control over other groups of people. And as you know, that's what's happening here. The claim that TERFs are evil and literally want every single trans person to die is a misdirection tactic because even acknowledging what our primary qualm is, head-on, shows how sexist and homophobic their movement is.

Unfortunately, people are born with genitals. There is a group of people born with vaginas (once called "women") and a group of people born with vaginas who are exclusively attracted to other people born with vaginas (once called "lesbians"). Current TRA ideology is trying to make it unacceptable for these groups to talk amongst themselves about shared issues related to biological sex. They're not even allowed words to describe themselves. You want a word for feminine-presenting people who are exclusively attracted to feminine-presenting people? Cool, that's a group of people. They can have a word. Why aren't biologically female people who are exclusively attracted to biologically female people allowed to have a word and their own communities, too? Why is it considered discriminatory and exclusionary if someone wants a space where they don't have to look at or think about penis? Isn't that a sexual boundary?

Giving a direct response to that makes them look bad. So they don't. They can't. They swing the narrative back to how poor and oppressed trans people are and how painful gender dysphoria is, and if some trans teen somewhere kills themselves because a group of women wanted to have a chat about periods without centering the teen's feelings, those women are evil. But the truth is, we are perfectly capable of empathizing with and listening to trans people, while TRAs dehumanize us and call for our deaths.

TRAs fighting alongside women to make the world safer for feminine-presenting and gender-nonconforming people? Cool.

TRAs telling people formerly known as women and people formerly known as lesbians that they aren't allowed to gather because it's exclusionary? Not cool.

And while I'm ranting, it's so blatantly obvious how much the movement has swung from self-acceptance to exerting control. Look, if it's painful for a trans person to hear someone else refer to them by the wrong gender pronouns, I acknowledge that pain, and agree that it should be lessened. But what's the easier path here: convincing every single person in the world to always use the correct pronouns, or helping the trans person love and accept themselves so that they don't rely on external validation? Why is the message "TWAW, so everyone had better play along OR ELSE" and not "TWAW, so you are valid no matter what anyone else says, your body and gender presentation are perfect the way they are because they belong to you"?

Because it's not about empowerment, it's about dominance. Full stop.

[–]Kai_Decadence 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's the thing though. We KNOW that trans-identified people "are people". No one ever says they aren't so that's why I NEVER understand why these people say that because we already know that. But not believing that they are the sex they claim to be because of arbitrary reasons does not "dehumanize" them.

Exactly and as a feminine-presenting gay man, I have this in mind as well and it's why I don't play by "preferred pronouns", at least not when I'm doing my talks or analysis'. Because the thing I see is that for the "transwomen" who aren't doing what they do for some sex fetish kink or harassing women, I'm seeing feminine men who are desperately wanting to be themselves (present femininely) but not get backlash or bullying by other people (men), so they call themselves "transwomen" to avoid it but I'm trying to help these people find inner confidence in being the feminine men they are and know that there's nothing wrong with them. So my "misgendering" might seem harsh but it's not meant to be mean-spirited, it's meant to be honest but honesty with no malice. In short, these GNC men and women don't need to worry about being judged by someone like me, that they can be themselves.

But yeah in general, I agreed with everything you said.

[–]endless_assfluff 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And there's nothing wrong with that. I do privately refer to people with the correct-sex pronouns. It's the truth. For sure. The only time I play along is in public around people who drank the Kool-Aid, so they don't get the vapors.

Is that quote from someone else?

[–]Kai_Decadence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah I'm the same. Like I will play along in public around people for the obvious reasons. Like there are 3 obvious "transwomen" who come into my job and while I know they are men, I just keep it to myself.

And oh no, the quote was mine, I forgot to delete the ">" lol

[–]HeyItsAquarius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree with what you said.

[–]aldoushuxleyghost 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree completely. Which is why I always find it absurd when TRAs shriek we are denying their right to exist. It really shows how unhinged they are and only have emotional blackmail arguments.

[–]SaidOverRed 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course it's unhinged, but it's the same argument as quotas and glass ceilings and ... you know where I'm going with this.

[–]our_team_is_winning 15 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Serial killers are people too. Nobody ever denied they were people. It's the behavior that is causing problems.

[–]TalkToTheVoid 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree completely as well.

And I think this is what most laypeople also believe when they support trans-rights. That trans people are people and deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. That is all that's relevant to any fight for rights - their humanity, which should never come into question.

Insisting they are men or women when they're not biologically so, is not about rights. It's some other trip they're on.

[–]yishengqingwa666 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You go tell them that women are people.

[–]Marsupial 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nobody's saying they're not people. Nobody's denying their humanity. They are, however, people of the sex they were born as. Not getting to call yourself a woman when you are a man does not take away your human rights.

[–]luckystar 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I am a big fan of "trans women are not women; trans women are trans women and that's okay". They want to stop being "men", I could care less doesn't have anything to do with me. But they cannot enter the group called "women". We already exist; "women" is taken. The third option, carving out their own space, is one I would definitely support.

[–]HeyItsAquarius 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that's a good idea

[–]buttbuttinator 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Obviously this isn't what they meant by that, but this kind of illustrates one of the reasons I hate the terms "trans woman" and "trans man" with the space. If "trans woman" means a non-female who identifies as a woman and "trans man" means a non-male who identifies as a man then logically "trans person" would mean a non-human who identifies as a person or something like that and instead of calling it "transhumanism" we would call it "trans humanism". Putting that space there doesn't even really make grammatical sense and I swear that 5 years ago it was almost always "transman" or "transwoman" instead and it seems to me that they just added the space so they could exercise more power over the dialogue.

[–]SombreroBurlesque 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a red herring isn't it? Answering that makes the reader believe that the initial comment was claiming trans people are not people, when that was never brought into question to begin with. When you don't have a valid argument the last resort is manipulation.

[–]CleverNickName 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is because we know they are people, humans like everybody else (fundamentally), that we want the best for them - the best being acceptance of their bodies and minds as they are. Human females and human males.

Probably even those who hurl slurs at the slightest question, wish death upon all who disagree, bully women and homosexuals out of their own much-needed spaces. Because if they could actually deal with their issues instead of burying it under make-up and dresses, they might actually somewhere deep down be decent ... people.
In an ideal world.

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This "war" between women and trans people makes me sad. It doesn't have to be this way. People are people, and all people deserve to be treated with dignity and respect. All people deserve protection from discrimination. The extremism in today's rhetoric makes it impossible to say that we are different groups with unique needs. Certain activists are so intent on portraying trans people as identical to non-trans people that they don't really care about anything else.

[–]owmygenderfeels 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Trans women are women"

"Trans people are people"

The poor phrasing in an attempt to sound deep or whatever just makes it sound like "trans people" is the counterpart to "cis people".

[–]Lesbionia 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are people and they deserve to be treated with basic human respect. Unfortunately, a lot of them think basic respect means coercing lesbians into sex and invading single sex spaces.

[–]Literallyoprah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What's "ovarit"?

[–]BEB 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ovarit is a website created for women by women, many of whom are refugees from the subreddit r/gendercritical. It's to discuss women's issues and feminism. Lots of really smart and funny woman there.

Ovarit.com

[–]aldoushuxleyghost 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's like a smaller focused version reddit/saidit, but not run by men and radfem/GC themed subs only. It just started and is in beta.

[–]Coconaut[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Www.ovarit.com?

[–]Shesstealthy 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely trans people are people.

[–]IAmSatan 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just wished they'd show respect back. ^

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Keep wishing... see how that goes. The only way to get respect from malignant Narc AGP males is to demand it.

[–]DorothyGale 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who exactly has said they aren't people? I haven't seen this said anywhere by anybody. Why do people make such fucking ridiculous statements?

[–]zephyranthes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A trans person is a human being who deserves dignity and respect.

No. Look like a clown, get treated like a clown.