you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]endless_assfluff 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

That's one approach. Would you approve of my strategy if I told you I adopted it specifically to promote good-faith discussions and drag the narrative higher up the hierarchy of disagreement/pyramid of debate? If I'm in the company of liberal feminists and misgender or otherwise disrespect a transperson, their obvious response would be to label me as a bigot and TERF, which gives them an out to not listen to anything I say. So I avoid doing those things. This shifts the discussion away from whether or not transpeople deserve help and kindness, which is not the main point, and towards the most airtight argument we can make against TRA ideology, which is that the current system disallows "people with vaginas" from forming groups, having sexual boundaries, or even having words to talk about themselves unless they make concessions for "people with penises."

You can be respectful of your opponent's humanity without aiding them: here, I know they can't directly respond to my central point, so it's in my best interest to stay on the high road and expose their BS tactics for what they are. It's like saying, "Look, I don't need to dehumanize anyone or ignore information in order to win and I'm asking you to do the same." But they can't. Gaslighting and emotional manipulation are their only tools because facts are not on their side. 'Empathetic' doesn't mean 'doormat.' You dig?

[–]penelopekitty 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do you honestly think you are the first person to try this approach? Some of us have been at this FOR YEARS. All of our kindness and our soft approach got us was trampled on, gaslit, and presented with shifting goalposts. The TRAs and their handmaidens are craven and insidious.

[–]divingrightintowork 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I would subscribe to your newsletter. Are you familiar with steelmanning?

[–]endless_assfluff 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Looked it up---solid! (Haha!) If you see discussions as a way to collect information and refine your worldview rather than to defend your position at all costs, steelmanning seems natural. Too bad it's easier to see flaws in everyone's argument but our own. 'Course, it's easier when you have an entourage of 15 STEMbros picking apart everything you say.

I'm planning an essay/series of essays on GC debate strategy that you can add to your own arsenal---you into this stuff?

[–]divingrightintowork 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am very into that stuff! Please do include me.

Are you familiar with this website? https://letter.wiki/conversations

That's all about good faith engagement, steel personing, etc.

Similarly I run a private group on Facebook that is about engaging with contrasting opinions or contentious ideas, I always welcome voices outside my own circle, let me know if you're interested in joining or having a small fairly well educated audience to trot things out into.