Men vs Women when it comes to biological children

submitted by TalkToTheVoid from self.GenderCritical

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[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Having children is worlds more of a burden on women than men, to the extent that you can't compare the sacrifice involved. (none, for the male)

Yes, that's true if we focus solely on the burdens imposed on women by pregnancy, childbirth and the post-partum period, and perhaps for as long as she breastfeeds.

But pregnancy, birth and the neonatal period are just the first stages of what for most parents of both sexes is a long-term enterprise lasting many decades, often the entire rest of their lives - which involves all sorts of burdens, chores, sacrifices and obligations for both mother and father.

In the sort of couple OP is talking about - where both parties have agreed to become parents with each other - parenthood over the long-haul isn't always or typically so one-sided over time. Over a child's lifetime, a father might put in as much sacrifice and work as the mother. If the mother dies or becomes seriously ill or disabled, he might end up shouldering a whole lot or most/all of the burdens of raising the child himself.

And when couples "agree to become parents" as OP framed this hypothetical, they are agreeing to raising a child until age 18-21 or longer - not just bringing a baby into the world and getting her to the age where she's ready for solid food.

[–]TalkToTheVoid[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"Yes, that's true if we focus solely on the burdens imposed on women by pregnancy, childbirth and the post-partum period, and perhaps for as long as she breastfeeds."

Correct. That is the focus here.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But you didn't say that in your OP. You specifically set up a "scenario wherein a couple agrees they want to be parents."

[–]TalkToTheVoid[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes because I'm discussing attitudes towards the fact of the burden of pregnancy being on women.

Either way, even if it wasn't clear to you earlier, perhaps it can be now. If it's still not, I don't know what else to do. You're not engaging with the question I asked and are having an entirely different conversation. You're welcome to it, but I don't care to have that conversation so I'm done.

[–]jelliknight 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What MarkTwainiac seems to be saying is that the disproportionate burden placed on a woman when having biological children rather than adopting pales in comparison to the 18+ year long commitment to child rearing by both parents.

Imagine a situation where the father does 55% of the childrearing over 18 years, while the mother does 45% of it. He's just slightly more into the kid, and slightly more involved. Over 18 years he will do the equivalent of 9.9 years (9 years and 11 months) of parenting and she will do 8.1 years (8 years and 1 month). Even if you add pregnancy to her share, in terms of total time invested he's still doing over a year more parenting that she is.

Of course its slightly different when talking about physical investment of pregnancy and birth vs emotional and time investment, but then there are plenty of women who have extremely easy (even pleasant) pregnancy and birth, in which case you almost shouldn't count it at all. My mother has said she never in her life felt healthier than when she was pregnant.

But I believe that's what MarkTwainiac said when she said you're reducing 'having children' to 'making babies' and therefore ignoring the biggest part of being parents, so your hypothetical isn't really valid.

I think you should also consider that temperament is at least partially inherited. Having a baby/child/teengager who slots right into your family dynamic and naturally bonds with you from the moment of birth is likely to be a lot less work than adopting a child, building a bond with them over months or years (which might not ever totally form), and working through and abandonment or other issues they might have as a result of being adopted. So even when you only consider the strain on the mother, adoption is not the silver bullet you might think it is.