Moving to France doesn't make you French

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

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[–]Shinjin_Nana 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I mean, I get it, but immigrants exist?

You don't have to have French lineage from Roman times to move to France, get citizenship via their laws, and voila! be french.

For this analogy to hold up to biological womanhood you'd have to think that French citizenship was only open to people of French heritage, and that non-french people can't go to France.

[–]truthwins 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That’s not how it works for Europeans. Trust me, I’m American but I also have a German passport because my grandfather is from Germany. All of my siblings do, and my older sister lives in Germany, speaks fluent German, and is a citizen. But even she wouldn’t call herself German to them, she tells them she’s an American with a German passport. It’s not just a nationality because European countries weren’t made to be melting pots. Similarly, if I moved to Japan, got citizenship, and spoke fluent Japanese, would you look at me, a white person, and call me a Japanese? Probably not. I’d be an American with Japanese citizenship who also spoke the language. A TIM may have an ID that says he’s a woman, but genetically and biologically he is still male. Always. You can’t identify your way into biology.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"It’s not just a nationality because European countries weren’t made to be melting pots." That's a bit of an odd statement considering British history.... There's actually a lot of migration to Europe. Legal and otherwise, especially into the larger cities.

You're conflating biological race/ethnicity with the legal fiction of nationality. A European will never BE Japanese, but there are pathways to citizenship available for Europeans to join Japanese society and be equals, regardless of how they are viewed on the outside.

Case in point: If your grandfather is German then your sister is at least part German.... I don't get your analogy. Does being born in america negate her German ancestry?

This is why it falls apart. I can be California born, Hungarian, Austrian, and Moravian Czech (Austro-Hungarian if you're up on your pre-WW geography) by blood - I can move to any of these countries and assume the legal sanding of citizen, without any part of my past lineage being erased.

Say I move to Austria from California, I still am part Austrian on my mother's family side. I wasn't born into the legal fiction of Austrian citizenship, but I have Austrian blood. I never lost that, but men aren't 'part woman'. There's no blood or nationality for them to assume.

To get your analogy you would have to argue against legal nationality by equating it with legally changing your sex.

[–]truthwins 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Let me put it this way: I currently live in Ireland. The Irish hate it when people who aren’t from the country claim to be Irish. They’re called “Plastic Paddies” and are mocked. It doesn’t matter that I’m 40% Irish according to my DNA test; I’m not Irish. Even if I got citizenship, I didn’t grow up in the country or the culture. I will never be fully Irish in their eyes. Which is fine, because that’s how Europeans see it. If you go to Austria and claim to be Austrian, the Austrians will roll their eyes behind your back; I’m serious. It’s one thing to have Austrian ancestry and even citizenship, it’s another to be Austrian.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

what you're missing is that there's multiple ways to BE irish. and none of them are based on rolling irish eyes.

The irish might roll their eyes, but if you have part or no irish blood but citizenship via their laws you are still their equals under their laws. You ARE irish as seen by the law.

You can have irish blood and be born in america with irish american culture. The irish in ireland might roll their eyes, but it doesn't erase your ancestry.

You can have no blood, be born elsewhere, migrate as a child and be raised in Irish culture. Are you irish enough to stop dem rolling eyes?

You can be full blood or half blood or no blood only existing withing their law structure as Irish on paper and STILL be irish. Rolling eyes notwithstanding.
You would have to have a hitlerian level of pure blood family's been here for centuries papers please view of nationality and ethnicity for your analogy against gender identity to work.

It falls apart because while there are many ways to interact with an ethnicity and culture, but there is no way a man can be the same a biologically different woman, no matter how much he mutilates himself.

[–]yousaythosethings 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The idea would be that you can become a French citizen under the law but you are never truly French and always distinguishable from other people born and raised there and who did not come from some other background. In the west, governments are allowing men to change their legal sex to female, but it's a legal fiction and we all know that. It didn't make them female as a practical or factual matter. It should also not be taboo to point out that there are differences between natal males who change their legal status to female.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What if I was part French via my family but happened to be born elsewhere? If I moved back to France after being born abroad would I still not be 'French' as I was not raised there? What if someone from Nigeria happened to be born in France and raised there with Nigerian customs in a Nigerian neighborhood in Paris - do they get to be French while someone born in the US with French blood is not french?

What does it actually mean to 'be French'.

This analogy falls apart because it's conflating legal nationality or blood ethnicity with men changing their sex to women. Men can't be 'part woman' or have a connection to womanhood the same way someone can be connected to a country or ethnicity in multiple ways.