you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]IAmSatan[S] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

My speculation is that gay men weren't "shocking" anyone if they behave and dress stereotypically feminine or androgynous (in fact, most were found out to be gay because of it). I think many found a way to express their AGP that way. With more acceptance and visibility of regular gays the "masc" culture is pushing feminine gays out and they start to think that the TRA has it correct - they must "convert" to achieve full satisfaction.

If you look at a stereotypical gay guy they aren't really... women-like. It's a stereotype of what they think a woman is like. Drag culture is another expression of this.

[–]MarkTwainiac 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I agree with you. I've always thought a lot of "flamboyant" gay men who like to dress and act in stereotypically "feminine" ways - "feminine" as defined by the male gaze and male mind and twisted to suit male sexuality, that is - have AGP, or elements of it - just as they have many narcissistic traits.

Ray Blanchard's taxonomy dividing male trans into two broad [sic -LOL] categories - heterosexual males with AGP, and gay males with internalized misogyny and an attraction to straight men (HSTS) - has been widely (mis)interpreted to mean that no HSTS males have AGP. But my understanding is that from the start, sexologists have observed that a good number of HSTSs have AGP as well.

Men who were transvestites FT or PT used to be very common amongst gay men, just as a small number of gay men have been transsexuals since CSH, androgen blockers and "sex change" or rather sex mimicry surgeries became a thing. But now all the men who in the past would've been simply transvestites have rebranded themselves to a man as transgender, and the definition of transgender has been broadened to include both transvestites and transsexuals and a whole bunch of others such as people with kinks and edgy haircuts.

However, it's only been very recently that transvestites, transsexuals and men with kinks and a host of mental disorders in vast numbers have started claiming that they actually are women and demanding that they must be recognized as such and given access to female-only spaces, services, programs and sports - and centered in feminism to boot.

My own impression from closely observing the scene since the 1960s is that the sea change we're seeing today is not because gay "masc" culture has started pushing feminine gays out.

Back in the 1960s, 70s, 80s and 90s, gay male culture and communities had room for all sorts: the transvestites co-existed with the leather boys, the bears, and the vast majority of gay men who back then, like today, were "normal" appearing and acting fellas who didn't stand out in any obvious way. In the late 20th century, as the Village People's song "Macho Man" and the work of Mapplethorpe shows, tons of gay men were hyper-masc. But they co-existed easily with the preppies and yuppies, the drag queens, the ball scene boys, and all the hyper-feminine "swishes" who were PT or FT transvestites like Jared Leto's fictional Rayon in "Dallas Buyers' Club" or similar real-life figures like the marvelous and gorgeous Marilyn Peter Robinson and the endearing Patrick McCabe of "Breakfast In Pluto" fame.

I don't think gay masc men have pushed the transvestites out of male gay culture. I think what's happened and is happening has more to do with the spread of regressive gender ideology and transgressive queer theory; the dominance of Big Pharma in the post-Prozac era when psychiatry has adopted an ethos of medicating away all discomfort rather than working through it in talk therapy; the normalization of cosmetic surgeries and endless body modifications; social media; internet pornography and "sissification" fantasies; social isolation; cosplay, LARPing and gaming, etc.

I also think that all along male transvestites keenly observed the favorable treatment given to early-70s era transsexuals like James Jan Morris and Richard Raskin Renee Richards, and saw how easily those men were allowed to make inroads into women's spaces, sports and services. So they decided to seize the opportunity and follow suit. Out of misogyny, envy, covetousness, opportunism, and male entitlement and supremacy.