Someone said "let's not just talk about TRA's all the time." Can we finally talk about this? Or are we still too afraid of this, too?

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[–]MarkTwainiac 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Huh? Your phrasing - "can we finally talk about this?" - suggests that you think feminists who oppose regressive, sexist and misogynistic gender ideology are all of one mind and background and that none before have ever discussed or challenged the Islamic custom and/or requirement of female veiling in all its manifestations - be it the burka, niqab, chador, hijab or the more localized variations known as al-amira, khlmar or shayla.

But the fact is, women of a wide variety of nationalities and political persuasions have been speaking out in opposition to forced and coerced female veiling in Islam for generations - just as women in/from other faith traditions long have objected to and thrown off the head coverings and modest dress requirements imposed on them/us by other male supremacist ideologies such as orthodox Judaism and many sects/branches of Christianity.

Many of the women who came before us risked their lives and the lives of their families by protesting against Islamic veiling requirements and customs.

One such woman was Persian/Iranian physician, educator and lifelong feminist Farrokhou Parsa, who in 1979 was the first and only female member of the Iranian cabinet. She was put to death by firing squad in May, 1980 for refusing the forced veiling edict issued by Supreme Leader of the newly-established Islamic Republic of Iran, Ayatollah Khomeini.

In her last letter from prison prior to execution, Parsa said:

"I am prepared to receive death with open arms rather than live in shame by being forced to be veiled. I am not going to bow to those who expect me to express regret for fifty years of my efforts for equality between men and women. I am not prepared to wear the chador and step back in history."

If you want to start a convo about this topic on this social media platform, fine. But please don't frame your questions in language - Can we finally talk about this? Or are we still afraid? - meant to suggest that no women anywhere or at any previous time have ever spoken up about veiling before. Whatever your intent, the sort of framing and language you've chosen have the effect of erasing the efforts of millions of brave women of many nationalities who've spoken up on this topic over many generations.

[–]vitunrotta[S] 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

meant to suggest that no women anywhere or at any previous time have ever spoken up about veiling before

Well, let me clarify something: I never thought this has not been discussed about and fought over for years and years (long before I was born even). Coming from one of those "male supremacist Christian sects" I know full well what it's like to fight against the oppressive norms created by and enforced by men (and to an extent, of course, other women as well).

I have read many a book, article, report and column about the battles (both lost and won ones) women are still today having regarding the misogyny especially in fundamental religious movements. I don't want to sound like an asshole, but in this context I must use the "I'm sorry you misunderstood me" because my intention was not to imply there NEVER was any pushback and/or solidarity regarding this.

The fact is, though, that lately talking about any issue regarding especially the misogynist and oppressive nature of Islam (or rather, to clarify, certain orthodox movements within Islam) have been figuratively and literally banned on most feminist platforms. At least the ones I have been on. I understand some facets of the "we cannot condemn!" due to 911 and the shitshow that followed - however, as usual, the ah, so very American bipartisan, one-eyed, non-nuanced discussion culture took over every group, platform, and space: effectively making it impossible to even suggest that there might be something oppressive in Islam.

Your text comes across as quite condescending, and I have to say my original post did not offer much background or any further context - so it's understandable it could be easily read as "wE'Ve nEveR taLKed AbOuT ThiS" instead of, can we "start talking about this again."

This specific topic has been grinding my gears for YEARS now - the talk-bans and literally kicking people out of groups because they dared suggest that veils in any form could be misogynistic was usually enough. It went as far as "we (white, Christian background) Western feminists cannot speak for the brown women," and THAT effectively meant that one couldn't really even show support for the women who were (and STILL ARE) fighting for their right to NOT put on any religious garment if they choose not to. Like I said, I personally happen to have grown up in a religious sect that is pretty much ultra-fundamentalist Islam - just happens to be a Christian sect.

So to me this feels personal as well. I am not going to shut up about this anymore, or dance around the subject - I am goddamn ready to finally show open support to the brave girls and women all over the world where Islamism (and any oppressive religion) is still locking them into metaphorical (and sometimes real) cages and shutting them up. I hope that clarified what I meant by my post.

(Lessons learned - I will try not to post something without any added context in the future).

[–]Spikygrasspod 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Awesome. Thanks so much for sharing this.