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[–]crodish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

My idea for this was to present both arguments of the debate as neutrally as possible (regardless of which is backed up by science/proof) as a kind of starting point for people new to the debate to get a quick overview, and then hopefully do their own research on what is true and then decide what they believe from there. Obviously I personally don't believe in the TRA viewpoint (facts, etc), but it's what I see them saying whenever they're challenged, so I put it in. I didn't really want to come across as "this is TERF propoganda!" too since that also pushes people away.

I wanted to post this on GCdebatesQT actually, but the sub is temporarily closed (it would probably be a better fit there and be open to more opposing view points that could clarify whether this was truly neutral information or biased).

I'm also a bit unsure what you mean by being able to opt out of heterosexuality... Wasn't that the whole point of the LGB? You can't choose your orientation. There might be people who were born lesbian or bi but never embraced it until much later in their lives, it doesn't mean they changed sexual orientation. That implies a choice and is what the LGB is fighting against.

Edit: I just realized "compulsory heterosexual" was that thing where women are expected to grow up, get married, and have kids... for me it still means they were always lesbian or bi, but had to "fake straight" to get through society I guess, as unfortunate as that is

[–]jkfinn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

i answered quickly because had to get offline---so no framing of my points and more of my points left out. But no, I'm absolutely certain that sexual attraction is not innate. One's sex IS biological, but one's sex attraction can and does, in many, change. I can even site dozens of examples in persons in my own life, without even citing the known, like Adrienne Rich and Robin Morgan and the thousands of gay men who at age 42 suddenly become hetero because they lose their looks and appeal and want a wife to support them... ( a flip of the switch)

[–]crodish 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not leaving out any of your points, I'm just still gathering responses on this thread, and will revise the list with given suggestions, to be re-posted at a later time.

Regarding your latter point - I unfortunately still can't quite agree with this, because it would fall back on telling LGB people that they do have the choice to be straight, instead of LGB. Would this mean that you would agree with the stance that not wanting to date a trans person is transphobic, if sexual preferences can be a choice? Can people make themselves want to date trans people?

I'm not trying to be hostile here, just seeking opinions.

[–]jkfinn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The very concept of "choice" or making one's own decision means you're absolutely free to have sex with whomever you want, or to have no sex at all. Male sex systems try to undermine consent by pretending it exists when it doesn't, but I'm talking real consent and real choice. Once again, I think you're using trans language as your base of reasoning.

[–]crodish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I was thinking more just attraction, not just sex, but I see your point. Thanks for taking the time to reply! I'll have a think on this.

[–]jkfinn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

everything was so much simpler until trans purposefully confused, reversed, and obfuscated the lang. around sex & sexism

your OP was very fine... except for a few points. (in my opinion)