GC: How would you react if you saw a trans woman in the women's restroom?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

How do you know? Even Ovatit can't always tell someone's birth sex. For instance, one thread Why are many gay men prominent TRAs?, Chase Strangio was listed as a gay man.

There's ACLU Lawyer Chase Strangio, currently dead set on ensuring males can play in women's sports, resolving the nonexistent epidemic of murders of trans women, promoting "sex work", and other such noble pursuits in the name of human rights.

OP edited her post after others pointed out Strangio is a trans man.

There is another post which I couldn't find but someone asked if Jeanette Jennings (Jazz's mom) was a trans woman. Another user replied no she just has a large nose.

[–]BiologyIsReal 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Don't you understand that meeting someone in person is a complete different experience than seeing them in a picture? And pictures can be filtered, being in taken in convenient angles and lighting, etcetera. Also, those users may have made a guess based in Chase Strangio and Jeanette Jennings's words or behaviour.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Don't you understand that meeting someone in person is a complete different experience than seeing them in a picture? And pictures can be filtered, being in taken in convenient angles and lighting, etcetera.

Yes I understand. I still believe some trans people are indistuinguishable from cis people of the same gender.

Also, those users may have made a guess based in Chase Strangio and Jeanette Jennings's words or behaviour.

So you can tell someone's sex assigned at birth by their words and behavior? I thought GCs were against sex stereotypes?

[–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I thought GCs were against sex stereotypes?

No. Trends in a patriarchal society are measurable and provable. They are consistent with centuries of misogynistic tradition of stomping on women and treating them as subhuman. Pretending that everything is fair and peachy and egalitarian is a gaslighting load of horseshit.

Gendered socialisation that we are all subject to from birth and receive against our will based on our sex affects our words and behaviour. This shouldn't even be controversial, and has been established over and over and over again in studies. Pretending that this is not the case is, simply put, lying through your teeth. Or are you going to whine about this being misandrist, and then proceed to explain these discrepancies by the fact that men are simply biologically predisposed to beating, killing and oppressing women because lulz boys will be boys? (except trans men apparently)

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

No. Trends in a patriarchal society are measurable and provable.

I agree that trends are measurable and provable. It is proven from numerous studies that women are more supportive of trans rights than men.

According to a PPRI study, 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to 40% of women. The same study found that 68% of women would feel somewhat or very comfortable with having a close friend who is transgender, compared to 57% of men. That's a significant difference! 52% of women say they would feel somewhat or very comfortable if their child came out as transgender, compared to 44% of men.

A poll found that 59% of men support banning trans women in women's sports compared tp 46% of women. 29% of men oppose banning trans women in women's sports compared to 34% of women.

There is a clear observable and provable trend that women are more likely to support the trans rights than men. Do any poll with equal numbers of random cis men and women and I will bet my life savings women will be more supportive of trans rights than men.

Trans men are men. While I hate the phrase "boys will be boys" because it is almost always used to excuse bad behavior, if I were to use that phrase, trans boys would be included under "boys" unless I specified "cis boys."

[–]Juniperius 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The polls you cite are invalid, because the people being polled are being lied to by omission. In order for any poll about trans issues to be valid, the people being polled must be informed that approximately 85% of transwomen choose to keep their penises and use them sexually, and that a large majority of transwomen are attracted to women. If the polls were honest about these facts, I can guarantee that the outcomes would be very different

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm sure even if all the participants were informed that 85% of trans women keep their penises and use them sexually, women would still be more likely to support trans rights than men. That's the point.

[–]Juniperius 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, that's not how it works. You can't use invalid polling techniques to come to any kind of conclusion. If the poll is badly conducted, the results could be similar to the actual opinion of the population, or it could be the opposite, you have no way of knowing.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And why do you think that? What makes you confident that you can speak for women and claim we would all agree with you?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I didn't say all women would agree with me or support trans people. I'm saying women are more likely to support trans people than men. This has been proven consistently through studies and polls. The old GC sub even had a thread titled "Why are women the primary defenders of transgender ideology?"

https://web.archive.org/web/20200125091238/http://reddit.com/r/GenderCritical/comments/eq0t36/why_are_women_the_primary_defenders_of/

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You repeatedly assume all women will agree with you based on what you have cherry picked as evidence.

The tired old poll you trot out still only represents a small fraction of Americans. Extrapolating that women worldwide will agree with those women, and therefore you, is not convincing. It never has been.

Then you assume based on nothing whatsoever that even if the poll were asking a different question, (would you accept TW in even though they like and use their penises) and claim women will still agree.

Why do you make this assumption just because a tiny microcosm of American women are ok with giving away female spaces.

Interesting to see you still cherry pick what you respond to and simply abandon and ignore any and all arguments you make that are proven wrong, preferring to instead only pursue comment chains where you can make repeated unsubstantiated claims.

[–]adungitit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is proven from numerous studies that women are more supportive of trans rights than men.

Sure? This is perfectly expected given our society's neglect and hostility towards women's rights, women's socialisation that forces them to prioritise everyone but themselves, as well as women's general resistence to supremacist ideals and men's sociopathic and narcissistic tendencies that they're rewarded for. People behave in accordance with their upbringing. That's the whole point. Your average woman is supportive anyone and their dog's rights abover her own, and will prioritise men's erections and narcissism because that's how she's been brought up, and because society will punish her heavily if she doesn't keep her head down. Your average dude is against trans people because he doesn't want "trannies" to ruin his perfect patriarchal utopia where anyone who isn't a manly man knows their place. Or he supports trans people because that's the latest porn category he's been jerking off to lately. Same goes for male feminism. It exists only insofar as it allows men to jerk off to it.

By your own logic, you're being gender essentialist by using statistics to claim that women support the trans ideology more than men, since any acknowledgement of these things is "generalising" and "pushing sex stereotypes".

Trans men are men. While I hate the phrase "boys will be boys" because it is almost always used to excuse bad behavior, if I were to use that phrase, trans boys would be included under "boys" unless I specified "cis boys."

Riiiight. Women who identify as non-women just so happen to act in accordance with female socialisation because they're uh...women who are actually men with female brains and female gender identities?