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[–]LemurLemur 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

lol I'm a natal woman. Sorry for not living up to your stereotype. (Edit: I am legit not sure how what you just said isn’t like… classic sexism.)

I dunno, tho, I see a lot of GC sentiments centered around whether or not transwomen have penises and how that is the primary indicator of how their gender should be defined. They also talk a lot about how their vaginas are what make them women. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, as that is how sex is defined - by the sex-based organs. But that is what people ultimately want to know if they really want to know someone's sex. They want to know what their sex organs are.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Huh? I specifically said that

this particular phrasing - which is routinely used by genderists in discourse about sex and gender identity - reflects a distinctly male POV and framing.

I made no assumptions or statements whatsoever about your own sex as an individual. None at all.

Lots of the language and framing members of both sexes use about sex and gender issues, and many other issues, reflect a distinctly male POV and framing. Because for all of recorded history, it's been a man's world and most of the important texts written over history that influence us all were written to reflect a distinctly male POV and framing.

My comment was not a personal diss of you. It wasn't about you personally at all. It was about the terminology and framing. Sorry you took it as a comment about you.

FWIW, most everyone uses lingo that reflects a male POV and framing to some extent. Because we all grew up learning and citing famous phrasing like "no man is an island," "all men are created equal," "man's inhumanity to man," "hey man" and "man alive!" Medicine, law, philosophy, literature, art, criticism, history... all the major works in all fields reflect a male POV. Two books on the table next to me as I write this are Frankl's "Man's Search For Meaning" and Ellison's "Invisible Man."

I see a lot of GC sentiments centered around whether or not transwomen have penises and how that is the primary indicator of how their gender should be defined. They also talk a lot about how their vaginas are what make them women. I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that, as that is how sex is defined - by the sex-based organs.

Yes, the reproductive organs are a major component of what defines and differentiates sex, but in weighing the importance of the reproductive organs in human sex determination and definition, the gonads always will be in first place because gonads play more central and fundamental roles than either the penis or the vagina. The gonads are where the gametes are made and stored, and the gonads are also the organs that produce most of the sex hormones that cause a fetus to develop as distinctly male or female.

Moreover, during gestation in utero, the gonads develop and differentiate into ovaries or testes first - and it's only after the gonads have differentiated into either testes or ovaries (at about 7-8 weeks) and then start producing the gonadal sex hormones specific to testes or ovaries that rest of the reproductive organs develop.

In a male, after the testes develop, the testes will then produce both anti-Müllerian hormone (AMH) and testosterone. These will cause the fetus with testes to develop other male repro organs.

In a female fetus with ovaries, the lack of testes, testosterone and lack of AMH will result in the fetus developing female repro organs.

About eight weeks after conception the human foetus has two sets of ducts, one of which can develop into the male reproductive tract and the other into the female reproductive tract. If the foetus is genetically male (XY chromosomes) then the embryonic testes will produce anti-Müllerian hormone. This causes the Müllerian (female) ducts to disappear – hence the term anti-Müllerian hormone, whilst testosterone produced by the testes causes the male (Wollfian) ducts to survive.

The Wollfian ducts go on to develop into the different parts of the male reproductive system: the epididymis, the vas deferens, the seminal vesicles and the prostate gland.

In a female fetus (XX chromosomes) the Wollfian ducts disappear (because of the lack of testosterone) and the Müllerian ducts develop into the fallopian tubes, uterus (womb), cervix and the upper part of the vagina.

Anti-Müllerian hormone may also have a role in regulating sex steroid production in puberty and in the adult ovaries and testes. In the ovaries, anti-Müllerian hormone appears to be important in the early stages of development of the follicles, which contain and support the eggs prior to fertilisation. The more ovarian follicles a woman has, the more anti-Müllerian hormone her ovaries can produce, and so AMH can be measured in the bloodstream to assess how many follicles a woman has left in her ovaries: her ‘ovarian reserve’.

https://www.yourhormones.info/hormones/anti-mullerian-hormone/

BTW, the talk of penises and vaginas that you have you have correctly observed many with "GC sentiments" commonly engage in also reflects a distinctly male POV and framing. It's a framing that mistakenly regards the penis as the primary male sex organ, when in reality the male testes play a much more important role. And it's a framing that reflects the primacy of PIV intercourse in much literature and thinking about human sex over the course of history too.

Apologies for not choosing my words more carefully so as not to cause you personal offense.