Calls for trans elimination

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Sorry, but the whole idea that you get to chose your body

What's wrong about this? Why shouldn't everyone get to choose their bodies? Wanting people to have that choice shouldn't be intrinsically male or whatever

Most people feel very differently about themselves at 30 compared to at 21. There are good reasons that the process of maturing is often described by such phrases as "coming into your own" and "growing into your own skin" and "finally feeling at home with yourself."

This reasoning is used by older generations to remove or ablate the agency of young adults though... Yeah obviously I'll feel different at 30, but how I feel now matters too! and if I regret the choices I've made then future me will live and deal with that.

Lots of people who aren't trans feel disconnected from others, and have a deep sense of wrongness.

I don't think it is exactly the same. But I have never met a cis person who I felt really understood that, so. Lots of trans people have, at least.

I think the difference is that you presume that sense of wrongness is temporary, that it can be "worked through" or "grown out of", whereas I see it as a core part of who I am as a person, a feeling that's colored my life from the start, and something that I hold so closely to myself that I won't yield it up no matter what. I wouldn't take a "cure" for dysphoria because I don't want to be a cis man--it feels antithetical to my existence. I'd rather reach for something, and be half a woman half the time, to some subset of people, than conform to what I'm "supposed" to be.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Why shouldn't everyone get to choose their bodies?

Sheesh, talk about ableist, arrogant and entitled! And the kicker is that in the next breath you say that your unhappiness with your sexed body is

something that I hold so closely to myself that I won't yield it up no matter what. I wouldn't take a "cure"

On the one hand you say you and other trans people must be permitted go to whatever extreme lengths you want to alter your body, even if doing so has terrible negative impacts on self and others, all supposedly to alleviate the distress of "dysphoria," a distress you see as so special, singular and unique to trans people that you insist no one "cis" can possibly imagine it or have ever experienced anything like it. But on the other hand you say you relish and revel in your distress and hold it so dear that you you're never gonna give it up. Sounds to me like you're in love with being "dysphoric." Reminds me of the famous Rick Astley song:

Never gonna give you up, Never gonna let you down, Never gonna run around and desert you, Never gonna make you cry, Never gonna say goodbye

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sorry, do you have a reason that people shouldn't be able to choose their bodies or are you just going to say I'm bad for suggesting it?

And the kicker is that in the next breath you say that your unhappiness with your sexed body is

That's why I don't want the body I'm in. I'd rather be a robot or in a computer or something, honestly. So many people make do with chronic pain or other bodily issues that make life harder for them, why is it wrong to say we should work towards giving everyone the option to fix that?

[–]Juniperius 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

So many people make do with chronic pain or other bodily issues that make life harder for them, why is it wrong to say we should work towards giving everyone the option to fix that?

Now you want to eliminate people with chronic pain? Seems a little inconsistent.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I said to give everyone the option, not to push it on them. And it might be the case that people with chronic pain might have a unique culture that's worth preserving, in which case it might be unethical to encourage that option.

Also, it's kind of telling if you see transness as a condition of illness, like chronic pain. Being trans is wonderful, being dysphoric sucks, but the former is how I deal with the latter.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’d like to assure you that chronic pain has no culture around it. It’s just hurting. That’s the only commonality and we aren’t celebrating it.