Qt/tra, how does identity form?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

So there are woman brains and man brains? I disagree entirely with your theory that transgender people absorb socialisation they do not receive.

Every other facet of identity is one’s understanding of themselves in an actual role or physical reality they experience. Gender identity is nothing like that.

Like, part of my identity is aunty, because I have three nieces two nephews and a goddaughter I’m with one of them at least four days a week.

If it was the same as gender identity, I could identify as a mother despite being childless, because I have changed nappies and fed bottles and taught one-two-threes to some children.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I disagree entirely with your theory that transgender people absorb socialisation they do not receive.

Honestly… what would it even matter if this were true? It still wouldn’t mean they weren’t the sex they were born and the gender that goes with that sex. We aren’t gendered because of what we like or what socialization we absorb or reject. We are gendered because of and based on our sex- regardless of how we personally feel about it.

Also, just a warning from a previous convo I had with Masks, they will refuse to acknowledge the difference between a a mother and motherly figure lol

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It wouldn’t matter at all, I just maintain it’s a ridiculous reach and shouldn’t be argued like it’s an established thing.

Lmao, why am I not surprised masks would say that. Just ridiculous

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

No, but there are structures in a Brain that make someone prone to dysphoria. I don’t think they are dispositive on their own.

Gender identity absolutely deals with the physical reality as experienced. I had to experience my body to feel it was wrong. And experience how the world treated me based on that body to know that was wrong.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

So which structures specifically? You’re making one hell of a claim.

If gender identity is one’s discomfort with their sex and body, it’s not ‘gender’ so much as an unhealthy disconnect from their identity because they don’t like it.

How is that even remotely similar to any other aspect of identity?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Which structures in the brain? I’m Not a neuroscientist but I do recall a study showing that trans women had white matter formations in the brain distinct from men.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

So you’re making a claim based on something you may or may not have heard about a study that was wildly misinterpreted, and that’s good debate to you? That’s a solid foundation to claim that girlbrain is a thing and some men have it? Why on earth would two different mens brains have anything to do with womens?

As per usual you ignore sixty percent of what I ask you. Why even bother, masks?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I never said girlbrain. I said probably a structural basis for dysphoria based on observed commonalities in brain structures in trans women. That’s not saying trans women have “women’s brains”.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

And I’m saying that there is no difference between what you’re saying and the girlbrain concept.

Again, how does a difference between two mens brains equal a woman?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

It doesn’t. It differentiates between men and trans women on a structural level. That’s my point.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

But it only proves that they are men with a disorder or neurological difference. If that’s the case, why are others expected to say a woman is a man with maybe a bit more white matter? Why can we not simply recognise them as a type of men?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

Because you ate conflating male and men in a way that we don’t agree with.

[–]Juniperius 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If there are "structures in a Brain that make someone prone to dysphoria" then that's entirely independent of sex. That means that an alternate version of you that had been fertilized by an x-carrying sperm would have ended up just as desperate to be male as you are to be female, rather than having the perfect life you like to fantasize about.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That doesn’t follow at all. Also we don’t have info on Trans men’s brains. They’re understudied.

[–]Juniperius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you're claiming ladybrain it doesn't follow. In which case you should be honest about the claim you're making. "A structure in the brain that causes dysphoria" is a very different (and more plausible) claim than "my brain is ladybrain," leading to different conclusions and implications.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender still isn’t based on feelings so your gender identity is irrelevant to society and how society will gender you.

Gender identity doesn’t equal gender

People aren’t gendered based on the socialization they magically absorb