Tra/qt how is ‘examine your genital preference’ not homosexual conversion therapy?

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

The belief “trans women are just extra extra gay men” is still predicated on “trans women are men”, the exact belief you loudly evangelize.

Ok so now what justifies a tra asking anybody to analyse their sexuality for alleged bigotry? What is the goal of tra is asking or expecting people to examine their sexuality for why it excludes who it excludes? Who benefits from this analysis?

In theory it’s to help people with transphobic beliefs who don’t want to be transphobic to analyze their underlying beliefs and make them align with their wish to not be transphobic. I would argue society as a whole benefits from a reduction in bigotry against the marginalized but I reckon you would disagree.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

They are men. Your choice to define men via a set of behaviours rather than nothing more than sex is not based in fact or evidence.

Why does tra need to “help” strangers? I’m not buying that it’s just some altruistic desire to reduce human suffering when someone says “suck the girldick, bigot”

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Defining trans women as men renders all relevant analysis nonsensical. By that metric trans women deserve no rights or protection since they are men and part of the dominant paradigm. This fails to accurately measure the place and needs of trans women in society. It’s bad analysis, even leaving insult aside.

Nobody needs to do anything, but discussion peoples beliefs with the aim to reduce their bigotry isn’t unique to trans people. As to the last bit, some people are assholes, that’s not unique to trans people.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Then it’s reasonable to assume to goal of asking for analysis is to encourage the person to accept tra dogma. So it’s an entry to indoctrination.

Transwomen still have rights even when we recognise that they are all men. It’s perfectly possible to enshrine rights for protection for trans people. My country has done it so don’t bullshit me with nobody would ever vote for it.

It’s not reduction of bigotry, it’s indoctrination.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

We would certainly prefer people stop being bigoted against us, but the goal isn’t to make anyone sleep with you.

Transwomen still have rights even when we recognise that they are all men

As long as you consider trans women men, they can’t even really be discussed as needing rights. Because men don’t need elevated protections. Trans people do.

It’s perfectly possible to enshrine rights for protection for trans people.

Yes? But you can’t argue the need if you just lump trans women with men.

My country has done it so don’t bullshit me with nobody would ever vote for it.

Cool? Not everyone lives in your country.

It’s not reduction of bigotry, it’s indoctrination.

Respecting trans people isn’t a religion it’s basic human decency.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It’s perfectly possible to recognise transwomen as the males they are while still respecting their human rights and being decent. Your incorrect and deeply personal definitions don’t actually matter because nobody else is using them.

Respect is possible without accepting the thought-stopping mantra of TWAW. It’s indoctrination if you need their belief to match yours for it to be acceptable.

I’ve discussed transwomens rights while recognising them as men plenty. Disabled men, gay men, plenty of other groups of men have been disadvantaged before. Transwomen aren’t unique there. Transwomen are men who suffer unique struggles and social due to their belief they are actually women. They require protection from those who would harm them, and it should be illegal to fire/evict/not hire them over their belief.

Wow much impossible. If it’s been done in multiple other nations, why the fuck do you say it’s impossible? That’s just..really really silly.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It’s perfectly possible to recognise transwomen as the males they are while still respecting their human rights and being decent.

Sure but not as men. That is impossible.

Your incorrect and deeply personal definitions don’t actually matter because nobody else is using them

All trans people. Most queer people. All supportive cis straight people.

If you think trans women are men you don’t respect them. It’s really that simple.

Trans women are physically more vulnerable than gay men and less hated. Disabled men have a variety of special protections because they need them. But none of those protections are sex based and you aren’t wrongly conflating them with the dominant parties.

Wow much impossible. If it’s been done in multiple other nations,

Because it hasn’t been. Places with trans protection don’t treat trans women as men or trans men as women. They just don’t. You are citing as evidence protections that don’t exist. Nowhere is like “it’s illegal to fire trans women but they’re still men and can’t access any spaces or services or change their ids and it’s illegal for them to go stealth.”

Literally nowhere takes that approach.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

So laws preventing eviction/firing/not hiring/not giving medical care etc etc are all useless because they don’t force people to perceive tw a certain way? Ridiculous.

Nobody is forced to disclose themselves, their ids do get changed to lie about sex, and every woman’s space has been given to them where I live, but sure, total oppression. 🙄

If you’re gonna regress into just whinging over not being able to control the perceptions of others, let’s just end all discussion here and now.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

So laws preventing eviction/firing/not hiring/not giving medical care etc etc are all useless because they don’t force people to perceive tw a certain way? Ridiculous.

I didn’t say they were useless I said they didn’t happen. No one puts trans rights in place while thinking trans women are men. Because if you consider trans women men, it’s a simple deflection to just say those protections are unneeded. That’s the very need for separation in a nutshell.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s basically what australia has done but ok, whatever you need to tell yourself.

I’m literally saying they are men who need seperate protections but I’m sure you’ll deny that and tell yourself it’s a lie.

No need to continue.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s basically what australia has done but ok, whatever you need to tell yourself.

I’m literally saying they are men who need seperate protections but I’m sure you’ll deny that and tell yourself it’s a lie.

No need to continue.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s basically what australia has done but ok, whatever you need to tell yourself.

I’m literally saying they are men who need seperate protections but I’m sure you’ll deny that and tell yourself it’s a lie.

No need to continue.