QT/Trans: What do the language changes actually accomplish?

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[–]strictly 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Everyone has a gender identity and all of us are either cis or trans.

We don't, you are not all people, it's not up to you to gender others against their will and dictate what inside their mind when you only have access to your own mind . I also thought transactivists like you usually claim to support agender and nonbinary people, you don't then, you will still go ahead and misgender them with false gender identities? If you don't have empathy for those without gender identities, how can you expect us to have empathy for those who have?

There are also many cis women who do not find gender identity/ trans women alienating

Only those with cisgender gender identities find it not alienating, as they have a gender identity like you, but many of us are not cisgendered and don't have gender identities. I don’t care if you put yourself in gender box, your mind, your choice, but you have no right decide for other people, who don't even share you cisgender gender identity, that they must be okay with being put in a gender box.

According to a PPRI study, 51% of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to 40% of women.

40% against is big number.

According to a poll, 59% of men support banning trans women in women's sports compared tp 46% of women. 29% of men oppose banning trans women in women's sports compared to 34% of women.

More people in both sexes supported the ban than opposed, not surprising.

They aren't females, but they menstruate and have PCOS. This is why we use inclusive language, to separate sex/gender from these things.

Had they not been of the female reproductive sex it would have been physically impossible which means they are of the female reproductive sex. Sex refers to sex, not gender: As you say yourself, sex and gender should never be conflated so when I use words for the two sexes I indeed refer to sex, not gender anything.

f we would use gender-neutral language, we would use the term "menstrual products" and not "female products."

Female is a sex, not gender so it’s always gender-neutral, unless you are genderist who has genderfied the word, which is morally wrong as you by that action genderfy the unwilling.

Having a vagina doesn't necessarily make you a woman. That's the point. It only means you have a vagina.

Woman just means you are an adult human of the female reproductive sex so any adult human of the female reproductive sex is a woman as that is the only thing it refers to. If it means anything else to you then you are genderist who has genderfied the word, which is morally wrong as you by that action genderfy the unwilling.

This is exactly why we use inclusive language.

Woman is inclusive to all adult humans of the female reproductive sex, unless you are a genderist who has genderfied the word, which is morally wrong as you by that action genderfy the unwilling.

Everyone has a gender identity.

No, they don’t. If you want other people to take your word for it when you say you have a gender identity then you should give other people the same respect when they say they lack one.

If someone is born female and identifies as a woman, they are a cis woman. Same with cis men.

Woman is not an identity to us, it’s simply being an adult human of the female reproductive sex, something none of us had any say in. If your don’t understand what we mean with woman translate it to “adult human AFAB” in your mind as that is the transactivist way of saying the same thing. You don’t call man-identifying females cisgender just for knowing they are “AFAB” so you shouldn’t do that others either. Knowing biology is not an identity.

When I talk about women's struggles, I include every woman who experiences that struggle.

What is a woman to you? A gender identity? Then it’s absolutely disrespectful of you to include anyone without a gender identity as that is msigendering. But if you exclude everyone without a gender identity you will have excluded people who have faced what we traditionally mean with women’s struggles, so your definition of women’s struggles would be different. It would refer to struggles some people face for having a certain gender identity. I don’t have a gender identity so I don’t know if people with gender identities, like you, tend to face certain issues when they come out as having a gender identity. Either way, if you think those with gender identities need to organize I don’t mind that, but it shouldn’t include anyone without a gender identity. Then we can have a different sex based organization for struggles we face for being of the female reproductive sex.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (3 children)

We don't, you are not all people, it's not up to you to gender others against their will and dictate what inside their mind when you only have access to your own mind . I also thought transactivists like you usually claim to support agender and nonbinary people, you don't then, you will still go ahead and misgender them with false gender identities? If you don't have empathy for those without gender identities, how can you expect us to have empathy for those who have?

Everyone has a gender identity, even agender people. Agender is a gender identity. I never misgender anyone. If someone says they're a woman they're a woman. If someone says they're a man they're a man. If someone says they're non-binary, they're non-binary. If someone's gender identity matches their sex assigned at birth, they are by definition cisgender. If someone identifies with a different gender than assigned at birth, they are by definition transgender. Everyone has a gender assigned at birth and that is tied to biology.

Only those with cisgender gender identities find it not alienating, as they have a gender identity like you, but many of us are not cisgendered and don't have gender identities. I don’t care if you put yourself in gender box, your mind, your choice, but you have no right decide for other people, who don't even share you cisgender gender identity, that they must be okay with being put in a gender box.

Most people are cis, even those who don't like the term cis.

More people in both sexes supported the ban than opposed, not surprising.

My point is women are more likely than men to support transgender people. Everyday Feminism was founded by an Asian cis woman named Sandra Kim. The BabyCenter community supports trans rights and they are a pregnancy and birth board. They will quickly call you a TERF if you express a gender critical opinion. My point is regarding transgender stuff, men are more likely to be on your side than women.

Had they not been of the female reproductive sex it would have been physically impossible which means they are of the female reproductive sex. Sex refers to sex, not gender: As you say yourself, sex and gender should never be conflated so when I use words for the two sexes I indeed refer to sex, not gender anything.

They are not female and female refers to anyone who consistently identify as female.

Female is a sex, not gender so it’s always gender-neutral, unless you are genderist who has genderfied the word, which is morally wrong as you by that action genderfy the unwilling.

The point is we are trying to de-sex periods if that's the term you want to use. We are saying in humans, periods ≠ female.

Woman just means you are an adult human of the female reproductive sex so any adult human of the female reproductive sex is a woman as that is the only thing it refers to. If it means anything else to you then you are genderist who has genderfied the word, which is morally wrong as you by that action genderfy the unwilling.

Men and enbies who get periods are not female. Using the terms "women" and "female" don't include them.

No, they don’t. If you want other people to take your word for it when you say you have a gender identity then you should give other people the same respect when they say they lack one.

That's not how gender identity works.

What is a woman to you? A gender identity? Then it’s absolutely disrespectful of you to include anyone without a gender identity as that is msigendering. But if you exclude everyone without a gender identity you will have excluded people who have faced what we traditionally mean with women’s struggles, so your definition of women’s struggles would be different. It would refer to struggles some people face for having a certain gender identity. I don’t have a gender identity so I don’t know if people with gender identities, like you, tend to face certain issues when they come out as having a gender identity. Either way, if you think those with gender identities need to organize I don’t mind that, but it shouldn’t include anyone without a gender identity. Then we can have a different sex based organization for struggles we face for being of the female reproductive sex.

Everyone has a gender identity. Anyone who presents outwardly as female experiences female oppression, regardless of birth sex.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Can you define what presenting as female is? Cause I’ve never presented myself as female, I just look female by nature. Presenting as something implies a degree of will and deliberate actions that must be female. What are they? When did the world shrink down to only be mumsnet and everyday feminism? Are there no other women on the internet? On the planet? You refer to these websites like they are a collection of the thoughts of all women, not a small demographic.

How do we have gender identity without knowing it? What are you defining gender identity as? Imo you’re conflating awareness of ones sex, which practically everyone has, with a gender identity and then projecting that incorrect idea.

How did you come to know the identities of everyone? How did you come to understand them better than the individuals to whom they belong? You must understand them better to be able to determine they have a gender identity when they themselves do not see it.

Can you actually bother to answer me for once? Seems weird how you only answer one in every ten things I ask you, and only when you can copy +paste a slogan in, rather than actually typing out some thoughts.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

When did the world shrink down to only be mumsnet and everyday feminism?

Houseplant, I don't get why you've brought up Mumsnet here. GenderBender mentioned Everyday Feminism and the Baby Center, not Mumsnet. Mumsnet is not like those other sites. Mumsnet is the place on the internet that I feel most at home. This is particularly true of the Feminism/Women's Rights section - which is widely known as the "radicalization portal" for the "terven" - and whose regular users are extremely well-informed and intelligent. But it's also true of the rest of Mumsnet too.

Mumsnet is place where millions of women - and many men - from a wide variety of backgrounds, walks of life and numerous different countries with highly varying points of view engage in vigorous debate about all sorts of topics - and do a lot of swearing too. It's not a site just for mums or parents, nor is it concerned solely with matters having to do with pregnancy, babies and child-rearing - though concern for children and other vulnerable groups is big on the site. But many users don't have children. I personally went to Mumsnet for the feminism, and it's the feminism that brings me back on a daily basis.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Made a mistake with names lol