QT: Is there such a thing as a man wants to be a woman? + 10 additional questions

submitted by SnowAssMan from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]SnowAssMan[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

As of this time, transition is the only cure for dysphoria.

That's a lie. Transition does NOT cure dysphoria. Not transitioning & accepting yourself for what you are is the only cure, it's called desistance & is defined by the lack of dysphoria.

People are assigned male, female or intersex

People are identified as male or female (is intersex a gender identity to you?) Some people assign themselves as the opposite sex in later life.

I do believe trans people have existed as long as humans have

This is a faith based belief. There have always been people (usually temporarily) who wished to be the opposite sex, but the current version of "transgender" is supposed to mean this mere wish to be the opposite sex is evidence that they are the opposite sex on some level – such people have never existed.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's a lie. Transition does NOT cure dysphoria. Not transitioning & accepting yourself for what you are is the only cure, it's called desistance & is defined by the lack of dysphoria.

It's not a lie. Very few people are disasters, and those are people who aren't trans and stop identifying with the community. Most people report physical transition helps and people can be trans for many years. Amelio Robles Ávila and Alan Hart were trans for life.

People are identified as male or female (is intersex a gender identity to you?) Some people assign themselves as the opposite sex in later life.

Most intersex people are either male or female. Very few intersex people are neither male or female, and they personally identify that way. Pidgeon Pagonis is a known intersex activist who identifies as non-binary and their birth sex is unknown.

This is a faith based belief. There have always been people (usually temporarily) who wished to be the opposite sex, but the current version of "transgender" is supposed to mean this mere wish to be the opposite sex is evidence that they are the opposite sex on some level – such people have never existed.

I know you don't believe trans people existed throughout history. You also don't believe gay and lesbian people existed throughout history.

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/7ze2/qt_if_all_these_third_genders_around_the_world/

[–]SnowAssMan[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Of course it's a lie, the fact that you back-pedalled from "cure" to "help" is your own admission to having lied.

Point is "assigned intersex" makes no sense, since "sex assignment" as either male or female is what happens to infants with DSDs. If a child's DSD is recognised & not "corrected" in any way or categorised incorrectly, then it's not "assigned", in fact it's the exact opposite. Anyway, stop bringing up DSDs bc they are never relevant. Anyway, conception determines someone as male or female, it's not assigned. Some people role-play the opposite sex & claim it makes them the opposite sex. This "transgender" identity has yet to be substantiated.

In that you post you linked I made the claim that it's homophobic erasure & appropriation for the trans cult to misgender all historical & non-Western gay male populations as women. No idea how you think a lack of the mythical transgender people negatively affects gay people.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pidgeon Pagonis is a known intersex activist who identifies as non-binary and their birth sex is unknown.

No one said people with DSDs aren't allowed to adopt a "gender identity" or to "identify as non-binary" or whatever. They have just as much right to ascribe to gender ideology and adopt identity badges as anyone else does.

What others said is that a DSD, aka an "intersex" condition, is not an "identity." It's a diagnosable medical condition that's a matter of material reality. A DSD is a fact of human biology that involves verifiable differences of physical development that affect reproductive and urinary anatomy and often aspects of physiology such as endocrine function too.

When Pagonis was born in 1986, Pagonis was found to be 46, XY and diagnosed as having AIS, a disorder/difference of male sex development. XY PAIS can result in external genitalia that varies considerably from the norm in a wide range of ways. It usually means undescended testes, undeveloped or absent penis, hypospadias, and scrotal skin that because the testes didn't descend doesn't look like a ball sac, but instead looks flattened and empty/floppy and perhaps like (fused) labia. But AIS also can result in what looks somewhat like a vulva, with a shallow indented skin pouch that is mistaken for a vaginal opening.

Pagonis says that early childhood medical records describe Pagonis as a "XY pseudohermaphrodite" (a term no longer used). In childhood, Pagonis's parents decided to raise the child as a girl and Pagonis was wrongly subjected to several surgeries as a young child to "feminize" the genitals.

But it turns out Pagonis was misdiagnosed in infancy and instead has a mutation of the NR5A1 gene. More than 50 varying mutations of this gene have been found, leading to a range of effects.

NR5A1 variants have been identified in people with 46,XY disorder of sex development, also known as partial gonadal dysgenesis. Affected individuals may have external genitalia that do not look clearly male-typical or clearly female-typical (ambiguous genitalia) or other abnormalities of the genitals and reproductive organs. Affected individuals may also have abnormalities of the adrenal glands, which may cause hormone deficiencies, resulting in a variety of health problems.

NR5A1 gene variants that cause 46,XY disorder of sex development impair the function of steroidogenic factor 1, though likely to a lesser extent than variants that cause Swyer syndrome.

NR5A1 gene variants that affect gonadal development and function have also been identified in people whose gonads do not produce reproductive cells (eggs or sperm). These conditions, which are called spermatogenic failure in men and primary ovarian insufficiency in women, result in an inability to conceive children (infertility).

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/gene/nr5a1/#conditions

It's not clear exactly exactly what was done to Pagonis in the childhood surgeries, which IMO should never have been done; and it appears that Pagonis got poor health care and advice, and was lied to outright about their medical condition and sex, until Pagonis was in college.

Pagonis has a memoir coming out in 2022; perhaps that will reveal more of the story in detail. But it's erroneous to say that "their birth sex is unknown." Also, when Pagonis was born Chicago in 1986, I don't believe that Illinois offered the option of being identified as "intersex" on its BCs. I believe the option of getting an "X" designation, or having a BC changed to X, only became available in Illinois in 2020.

BTW, my impression is that the Pagonis story undermines the claims of gender identity ideologues as much as the David Reimer case does. But at any rate, persons with DSDs, whether or not they undergo the trauma of early childhood "corrective" surgeries and are gaslighted their whole lives the way Pagonis was, are entirely separate to those who identify as trans. People with trans identities do not have DSDs, though it's a fairly common ploy for some of them to claim to have a DSD when they think it might benefit them. -like Jessica Yaniv (now Simpson).