QT: Is there such a thing as a man wants to be a woman? + 10 additional questions

submitted by SnowAssMan from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I’m referring to adolescence in the social sense as in the life stage between childhood and adulthood, not simply the onset of puberty.

I think Jazz was given estrogen too early though I would have supported blockers. But still yet. The studies on desistance rates gc likes to tout is on 8 year olds. It’s not sound to protect that onto someone who is during their teenage years expressing that they are trans. It’s an unsupported comparison.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks for answering. But I still am not clear on what you mean. You think adolescence is simply a social stage? Not one when development of myriad kinds occurs - physical, sexual, social, psychological, cognitive?

Also, I wasn't talking about onset of puberty. I was talking about puberty as a multi-year developmental process and pointing out that puberty and adolescence are not the same, nor does adolescence mean the teen years. Whereas in my reading of your posts, you seem to use these terms loosely and interchangeably.

When puberty begins, adolescence begins - but adolescence continues after puberty is finished. Similarly, by the time a person becomes a teenager, puberty is usually well underway and sometimes mostly over - depending on the person's sex and individual developmental clock. My point was that in these convos about boys and girls growing up, the different stages of development and life phases - childhood, puberty, adolescence, teens, early adulthood, adulthood, etc - need to be spoken of very precisely. Whereas no offense, you seem to speak of these matters loosely and in ways that IMO are confusing and hard for others to follow.

The studies on desistance rates gc likes to tout is on 8 year olds.

Can you link to these studies that GC supposedly uses, or at least give the authors' names, so I can look them up? I have no idea what studies you mean - and I'm someone who's definitely GC who's been looking into this area for many years now.

It’s not sound to protect that onto someone who is during their teenage years expressing that they are trans. It’s an unsupported comparison.

So does this mean your focus really is on, and all along you have been speaking of, persons who develop(ed) GD solely in their teenage years - meaning they have adolescent-onset GD begun after puberty has started, not childhood GD? Coz that's how it comes across, and that's what I've been trying to get you to clarify.

I agree with you 100% that childhood GD is entirely different to adolescent-onset and adult-onset GD. But GC is not the group that's been trying to obscure the distinctions between those with childhood-onset GD and those with GD that develops in adolescence or adulthood. The people who are projecting are the adults, usually males, who say that because they and other adult males who are trans now wish they didn't undergo some of masculinization of appearance that occurs as a result of male puberty and adolescence, then kids with childhood GD should have their puberties blocked so they don't develop those characteristics themselves.

The QT and pro-trans adults are also the ones who have come up with the harmful myth of being "born in the wrong body," a narrative they not only project onto the stories of their own pasts and the pasts of other adults who now identify as trans, but which they foist upon - and tell to - little kids with childhood GD too.

The GC side are the ones who warn against "unsupported comparison(s)" in these convos. Such as the unsupported comparison between adolescent and adult males with AGP and teenage girls with ROGD. And the unsupported comparison between the discrimination and abuse that some males go through growing up and in adulthood because others see them as "sissies" and suspect them of being gay and the discrimination and abuse that females experience because of our sexed bodies and the misogyny and sexism we face. And the unsupported comparison between what happened in the childhoods and adolescence of adults who grew up and matured many years or even decades ago and what's gone on, or is going on, in the childhoods and adolescence of young people today or in recent years.

The child abuse and human rights violations done to youngsters like Jazz Jennings, Trinity Neal, Kai Shappley, Mack Beggs and all the young girls getting their breasts amputated in the name of "gender affirmation" nowadays haven't come about because of GC people projecting our issues onto kids, or us making unsupported comparisons. It's because adult genderists have done and are doing that.

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So does this mean your focus really is on, and all along you have been speaking of, persons who develop(ed) GD solely in their teenage years - meaning they have adolescent-onset GD begun after puberty has started, not childhood GD? Coz that's how it comes across, and that's what I've been trying to get you to clarify.

It doesn’t matter. As I’ve said I’m speaking about people expressing trans identities in adolescence, regardless of onset. That’s who would be getting lasting treatment so that’s the relevant question. How many children desist is irrelevant because we aren’t talking about children, we are talking about people in their mid to late teens.

The child abuse false allegations have started so I won’t be responding further. Good evening.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It doesn’t matter. As I’ve said I’m speaking about people expressing trans identities in adolescence, regardless of onset.

But of course it matters! Not all "gender dysphoria" is of the same nature, nor does it have the same cause. GD of childhood onset is very different to GD of adolescent and adult onset. Both within each sex, and between the two sexes.

A same sex-attracted male of 16 who developed childhood GD because the adults in his life shamed and punished him for liking "the wrong toys" and for being what they considered "girly" or not sufficiently manly is entirely different to an opposite sex-attracted male of the same age who developed GD because when he was 11-12 he started borrowing the undies or intimate items belonging to his mum, sister or gran to masturbate in/with, and after finding he really got off on it developed AGP. And GD in each of them in turn is different to the GD of an awkward autistic boy of the same age who hasn't figured out his sexuality yet but in the past year has been groomed into wanting to be/thinking he's a girl by adult predators who search the internet looking for "eggs."

Saying "it doesn't matter" that what's going on with these different groups of young people is not at all the same and treating them as one undifferentiated mass is doing them great harm.

Moreover, GD in females is entirely different to GD in males. A 15 year-old female who developed adolsecent-onset GD because of sexism and internalized misogyny will have little to nothing in common with a male of the exact same age, class, locale, etc who developed adolescent-onset GD because he has an adolescent male libido and has been steeped in sissy porn.

As for people "expressing trans identities in adolescence" - that's a far, far bigger group than kids with childhood-onset and adolescent-onset combined.

Please explain how the medical interventions and cruel lies that gender ideology advocates insist minors be subjected to in pursuit of "early gender transition" doesn't amount to child abuse.