GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces?

submitted by womanual from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

There are cases where trans women have been beaten up in men's restrooms, so I guess not all men want them there.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It' s a sex segregated space for males, whether males who don' t call themselves trans want them there or not, the space is built for them as well. (Please, don' t waste time with your usual "BUT THEY ARE FEMALES" ridicoulousness, you know perfectly well that we use the biology-based labels and not the fantasy ones you use)

So no, males don' t have the right to insist another category of males should leave. They do, however, have the right to insist to remove females.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Not everyone regards trans women as males. I don't. Not everyone uses biology-based definitions.

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And on what do you base your definitions? On "gender identity"? How does that work when so far you've been unable to explain to us what a "female gender identity" or a "male" one entails? Laws need to be based on verifiable concepts in order to work in the real world. How do you know who is being honest about their "gender identity" and who is taking full advantage of the new laws and rules? Or do you think that "gender identity" is the one thing that humans are absolutely unable to lie about? Do you apply this same flexibility about identity on other areas like age, race, nationality, height, etcetera? For instance, if someone claims to be literally a cat, should we be mandated by law to affirm their "identity"? If you don't, why do you regard that biological sex is the one concept that should not be named?

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If we' re talking about sex segregated spaces, the definitions to use should be, surprisingly, sex based. And sex is a biological feature.

I know, mind blown!!!!!!

[–]BiologyIsReal 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My point was it doesn't matter what men who don't claim a "trans identity" think about this because it's "transwomen" who are are self-excluding from the men's restrooms that they are entitled to.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Citations please.

Also, there are cases where trans women have beaten up men in men's restrooms. Paris Lees, now a celebrity trans woman in the UK, served time in a (male) juvenile detention facility for taking part in a gang assault of an elderly gay man who later died of his injuries. As a teen, Lees was in a crew of gay youths who hung around public loos known for "cottaging" looking for men who'd pay them for sex - and for men to rob and beat up.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I Googled Paris Lees, and she did serve prison for 8 months at the age of 18 for a robbery. At 14 she began prostituting, but later recognized she was a victim of statutory rape. She dropped out of college and ended up doing drugs. I could not find a story of Lees taking part in a gang assault of an elderly gay man so if you could link to it that would be great. However, at age 14 she went into a public toilet cubicle with an older man and had sex.