QT, if gender is innate to identity

submitted by HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]BiologyIsReal 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, no surprised at all that you agree with MRAs...

Are you saying stereotypes are true?

There is a difference between saying someone fits the stereotypes of a group and saying all members of a group are like that. Anyway, you can observe behavorial differences between women and men, even if you limit such observation to an specific cultural group. However, how much of that is due to nature or nurture is hard to tell in many cases. The fact is social expectations affect us all since we're born and we cannot get rid of the influence of culture when studying sex differences. That is why I think your assertions about women and men are overly simplistic: you see a pattern and immediately assume that must be the natural state of things and that cannot be changed.

What femininity in men do you accept then?

I would prefer that society had less baggage about what men and women must do. I'd like women be treated as people, and that men were not jacking off of the abuse of women. I'd prefer men were not claiming to be women because they are not "manly" enough or whatever.

And where are transmen in that argument? Do they have opinion or influence? Are they really butch women with a lot of political power?

I was talking particularly of trans identified males only because they are the ones who really hold the power within the trans movement. There are two reasons for this. First, historically most people with a cross-sex identification were males. It's only recently that females whith a "trans identity" are increasing in numbers. However, most of these females are still quite young and, therefore, unlikely to be in positions of great influence. The second reason is females who identify as trans are still treated as women and they must prioritize the wishes of males who identify as trans.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

By action I think I'd observe that most people behave in accordance to those patterns. Most people act on the sexes having different sexual behaviours. I don't care if that is labelled MRA or Red Pill. That tribalism doesn't interest me.

There is a difference between saying someone fits the stereotypes of a group and saying all members of a group are like that.

Oh I completely agree.

That is why I think your assertions about women and men are overly simplistic: you see a pattern and immediately assume that must be the natural state of things and that cannot be changed.

It's not immediate and it's not an absolute thing. It's usually a bimodal model where quantity has a quality all of it's own.

I would prefer that society had less baggage about what men and women must do.

I probably would to. At the same time I think there are limits to it.

Also I come back to that issue of gender non conformity often being cross gender conformity.

That often gender non conforming people are effectively waving a flag of the opposite sex.

I'd like women be treated as people, and that men were not jacking off of the abuse of women. I'd prefer men were not claiming to be women because they are not "manly" enough or whatever.

But "not manly enough" is a euphemism for femininity here right?

Regarding abuse I completely understand your anger and concern.

But men engaging in any form of non conforming sex play are not the icons of female abuse.

Does porn contain a lot of what is sexual abuse of women by men? Yes, yes it does.

We have to be honest about how popular erotica is, with strong gender norms and in the broadest terms sexualised power, with women.

All the studies point to that. That's a far far bigger demographic that non conforming men.

We can say this ought not to be the case, this is the case because of social reasons.

Also I am saying masculinity and femininity are sexual separately from any category of power and sex. You do see and recognise that claim I make? I am not claiming all sex is power or all is some extreme version of that.

I was talking particularly of trans identified males only because they are the ones who really hold the power within the trans movement. There are two reasons for this. First, historically most people with a cross-sex identification were males. It's only recently that females whith a "trans identity" are increasing in numbers. However, most of these females are still quite young and, therefore, unlikely to be in positions of great influence. The second reason is females who identify as trans are still treated as women and they must prioritize the wishes of males who identify as trans.

I don't agree with everything trans activism says and does. This seems to remove all agency from transmen as if they don't exist, don't have opinions and have only just appeared.

You are conflating crossdressers who specifically do not identify as transwomen at the same time as ignoring transmen. I don't think that's reasonable.