QT: What rights don’t trans people have?

submitted by wokuspokus from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]strictly 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Buck is going to say he's a man who was born female.

Which proves that the thing Buck refers to with the letter combination "man" has nothing in common with what GC refer to with man, as we still only refer to males. When Buck refer to males though Buck recognizes not being male. Recognizing one's biological reality is not a gender identity, otherwise Buck Angel would be a cisgendered woman. We are only recognizing our biological reality, and that's it (something many trans people do too).

they don't claim they themselves oppressed due to being female

There are those who indeed do that.

especially after medical transition

You don't define trans people by hormone status so hormones shouldn't matter for you here. You talk about identity and you don't need hormones to have an identity. So either female people can recognize being oppressed due to being female without having cisgender gender identities or they can't and females who call themselves men and recognize their female oppression are all cisgendered women according to you. Which way is it?

Many have said they don't fear going out alone at night the same way cis women do.

Sounds like that has to do with looks, not identity. Unless you are saying they were all cisgendered women before deciding to become trans.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

Which proves that the thing Buck refers to with the letter combination "man" has nothing in common with what GC refer to with man, as we still only refer to males. When Buck refer to males though Buck recognizes not being male. Recognizing one's biological reality is not a gender identity, otherwise Buck Angel would be a cisgendered woman. We are only recognizing our biological reality, and that's it (something many trans people do too).

GCs don't see Buck as a man, but Buck sees himself as a man.

There are those who indeed do that.

I've read on r/FTM and other articles online where trans men say when they start passing they are treated as men by society. In this post, men say they don't fear sexual assault when walking alone at night. One man said "I have no fear of being attacked in a sexual way, but I fear being mugged/beaten up more now." Other trans men say it's easier to publish their work than under a female name, and they are taken more seriously at work.

GCs often talk over trans men saying they are only transitioning to escape misogyny or are lesbians in denial and they will always experience female oppression no matter what.

You don't define trans people by hormone status so hormones shouldn't matter for you here. You talk about identity and you don't need hormones to have an identity. So either female people can recognize being oppressed due to being female without having cisgender gender identities or they can't and females who call themselves men and recognize their female oppression are all cisgendered women according to you. Which way is it?

I don't define men by hormones but I was specifically talking about trans men who pass as male.

Sounds like that has to do with looks, not identity. Unless you are saying they were all cisgendered women before deciding to become trans.

Yes this does have to do with looks.

[–]strictly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

GCs don't see Buck as a man, but Buck sees himself as a man.

GC sees Buck as an adult human female and Buck does the same. As Buck and GC refer to two different things with the letter combination "man" we have to translate it. Buck is referring to having a gender identity, as anyone can identify as anything there is no reason for me to disbelieve anyone's gender identity so I would agree that Buck has the gender identity Buck claims to have as there is nothing that stops women from having the gender identity Buck has.

Other trans men say it's easier to publish their work than under a female name

Exactly, their gender identity had nothing to with it, any female person passing as the opposite sex/using a male name would get the same result as these females, regardless of gender identity.

they will always experience female oppression no matter what

They will experience it at the same level as any female person in their situation. Females who identify as men and don't pass as men will experience female oppression at the same level as other female people who don't pass as men. Females who identify men and pass as men will experience female oppression at them same level as other female people who pass as men. In countries where abortions is banned pregnant females who identify men will be banned from having abortions just like other pregnant females. Identity itself makes no difference.

I was specifically talking about trans men who pass as male.

Then you are talking about looks, and looks are not same thing as identity.

Anyway, we were talking about cisgender gender identities and experiencing female oppression doesn't prove a person would have a a cisgender identity (fetuses who are aborted for being female may have had any gender identity). I personally don't care that you have a cisgender gender identity, your mind, your business. I do take issue that you want to label people without gender identities with false gender identities against their will.