GC: How to know the sex of an intersex person? Are intersex people not 100% male or female?

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]IWoreWhat 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

And when kid is born they are only checking by genitals if everything correct.

Which I mentioned. And is "invasive", but we should do it.

Both males and females with CAIS are looking like a female when born. To check if it is male or female for sure, they will need to do X-rays and blood test of a newborn. That's pretty invasive

Since checking a newborn's genitals is as "invasive", but doctors should do it, doing x-rays and blood tests on newborns is "invasive" but they should be done.

And as I said, it's funny you use the word "invasive". People literally bathe newborns, and touch their naked bodies while bathing them ... You can't get any more "invasive" than that. But x-rays and blood tests are where you arbitrarily draw a line? Yeah I'm not buying that. If people get to bathe newborns, then x-rays and blood tests are nothing compared to it.

But why do it for every kid if only one in few millions girls born will have it? Why do it on rest? It is not saving anyones lives and can do harm - either physical or psychological. Why are you so obsessed with this question about extremely rare condition?

Eh. CAIS are all males. There are no "females" with CAIS. That's what I learned. None of the people with CAIS have internal female sex organs. And they. Have. Testes. Which doctors usually remove because they are underdeveloped and turn cancerous.

They should test everyone for whether they have DSDs or not, because I think it is worth it. I can just imagine talking to someone, who I think is one sex, but turns out is another sex. That's so "invasive". Making me and others use false language because to you these people pass as the opposite sex, and you think "it's invasive to test on newborns".

That one in two millions women who have completely female phenotype, was raised as a girl and maybe not even knowing themselves about their condition, is someone with CAIS?

CAIS are male. Not female.

Just because they think they are female, or pass as a female on the outside doesn't make them female. You say they are no different because they can't impregnate ... so you're saying males who have no penis or testes are not different from females ... so they are females ...

By that logic, a "trans woman" who chopped his dick and testes off, and on the outside totally passes as a woman due to hormones, is a female because he can not "impregnate". Do you hear yourselves? CAIS individuals are males with no penis and testes. Their "female phenotype" means boobs, and maybe vulva. They have no internal female sex organs. They are not females.

It's better to test on newborns to know if they have DSDs so people don't go lying to kids they are a sex they are not, like the case with CAIS who think they are women eventhough they aren't. It doesn't give the kids identity crisis. It doesn't make other people use false language when referring to the kids with DSDs. And when these kids grow up to date, they don't have to test then. They already know they have DSDs and what their actual sex is so they can tell others about it when dating.

Just doing ctrl+F on "?" showed me there were few.

...

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Which I mentioned. And is "invasive", but we should do it.

You are not answering my questions. You ignored every question in every answer to you.

I ask again - Why? Why we should do it, especially considering how rare it is and that majority doctors and midwives will never ever encounter one in whole their practice?

but doctors should do it, doing x-rays and blood tests on newborns is "invasive" but they should be done.

Why? In many countries doctors are not even on childbirth at all, if childbirth is going well. There just nurse, midwife.

CAIS are male. Not female.

There are females with CAIS too, but they are just normal females, with some issues with periods, as we need some androgenes for menstruation to go well - and those females are insensitive to them. Females with CAIS are not considered as intersex, thought, because they are completely unambigious and there are different other disorders females can have to be insensitive to androgenes.

You are very ignorant, tbh. Not sure why I am even trying to talk with you, as you are ignoring half of what I am writing and then saying something that is opposite to what I've said.

By that logic, a "trans woman" who chopped his dick and testes off, and on the outside totally passes as a woman

No. Males with CAIS never had penis, and they have naturally developed labia and clitoris, which are looking and acting like female ones, so unlike transwomen after surgery, it is not possible to tell if they are not females without X-rays (and I have experience with transsexuals, so I know it is completely different - especially scent and lack of self-lubricating and self-cleaning). It is absolutely different with Transwomen. Same with Estrogene - it is produced naturally in males with CAIS, they don't need any injections.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since checking a newborn's genitals is as "invasive", but doctors should do it, doing x-rays and blood tests on newborns is "invasive" but they should be done.

And as I said, it's funny you use the word "invasive". People literally bathe newborns, and touch their naked bodies while bathing them ... You can't get any more "invasive" than that.

It's some weird world you live in. According to the dictionary I use (Oxford) the adjective "invasive" means

• (especially of plants or a disease) tending to spread prolifically and undesirably or harmfully: patients suffering from invasive cancer

• (especially of an action or sensation) tending to intrude on a person's thoughts or privacy: some people ask invasive questions about other people's health

• (of medical procedures) involving the introduction of instruments or other objects into the body or body cavities: minimally invasive surgery

If in the course of bathing or changing a baby or older child, people do not customarily put our fingers, hands, instruments or other objects into their body cavities, particularly not their anuses or vaginas. When caring for a young child, people usually use a washcloth or perhaps a cotton swab to clean inside their ears, and nowadays it's common to check children's temperature using a thermometer that gets inserted in the ear. When a kid has stuffed up nose, parents often use a pinky fingernail or suction device to clear out the mucous. When children reach the age where they have teeth that need brushing, carers will brush their teeth - or more commonly, help guide their hand as they brush their teeth themselves.

In the olden days when I was a kid, it was customary to take kids' temps using rectal thermometers. Then, as sometimes now, some drugs that are given to children are administered by suppository. Sometimes kids get worms, diaper rash and other conditions that require ointment or medication be applied to and around the anus. In highly unusual circumstances that might happen once in a million years, kids growing up might have a health problem where they'd need an enema.

But in the normal course of events, parents and other caregivers DO NOT do anything invasive to newborns, older babies or children of any age when bathing them, changing their diapers, dressing them or otherwise caring for them.

Moreover, the standard physical exams that HCPs do on the genitals and bottoms of newborns and other children do not involve doing anything invasive. HCPs do not penetrate girls' vaginas or the anuses of children of either sex as part of routine care. Yes, HCPs put a tongue depressor in kids' mouths, stick a scope in the ears and nostrils, and often use in-ear thermometers to check temp. Dentists and dental technicians poke around in kids' mouths. When kids are sick, they sometimes do get invasive procedures such as needle sticks, IVs, various kinds of scans, and surgeries. But as a general rule, it is not customary for parents, carers or HCPs to do invasive things to newborns or other children.

The only exception to this is the circumcision of male infants by HCPs and mohels, a practice that I abhor and think should not be done. When baby boys' foreskins are left intact, it's not customary for parents, carers or HCPs to mess with them during bathing or medical exams. When a child is older, carers will teach him to retract his own foreskin over the head of the penis for hygiene and so that phimosis does not occur.

I find it disturbing and frankly frightening that you think people with CAIS should be subjected to your verbal invasiveness when you rock up to them and demand that they tell you if they have a DSD, that you think it's customary for adults to subject newborns to invasive acts as part of ordinary care, and that you now are insisting that all newborns be genetically tested for CAIS

because I think it is worth it. I can just imagine talking to someone, who I think is one sex, but turns out is another sex. That's so "invasive". Making me and others use false language because to you these people pass as the opposite sex, and you think "it's invasive to test on newborns".