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[–]BiologyIsReal 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Nobody is born in the wrong body. Your brain is a part of your body. An atypical brain doesn't make you the opposite sex. Also, if the brain theory were true, then why don't they make brain scans to determine who is truly trans? (Just a rethorical question).

Trans people are free to believe they are the opposite sex if they want. It's not reasonable, however, to expect that everyone else goes along with such beliefs. To force people to treat them as if they were "social women" (or "men") seems like a form of compelled spech. I don't share the idea that don't using prefered pronouns it's a rude, or worse, extremist position. Pronouns and the words women, men, female and male are not insults. Moreover, this "basic courtesy" we are being asked to do is pretty one-sided. Nobody asked me if I find the association of womanhood with sexist stereotypes (which trans people usually rely on to "pass") offensive, for instance.

As for how good is the idea of "social women" (or "men") is, well... I think it's extremely problematic. Part of the reason, I think, we are in this situation is because society have been politely going along with trans people's beliefs for too long. The issue is that treating them as honoraries members of the opposite sex creates the appearance that other people really believe in trans' "identities". And many trans people need external validation because, it seems, that deep down they don't believe in their chosen "identities", either. So, they will keep asking for more.

When transactivists lobbied for the self-ID (though they didn't call it that way, obviously) to be passed in my country, they focused on the concept of identity. They said the law wouldn't affect anyone else and it would only make their lives easier. Just a change in their documents, they say. However, it didn't stay that way. It turns out that if you make someone legally a "woman" (or a "man"), then you have to treat them as such in all aspects. Who would have thought it, right? Transactivists here, in preparation for the gender identity law, also make sure to "educate" local journalists about how this law didn't affect anyone else and "inclusive language" like prefered pronouns. You know, so journalists would be able to "explain" this stuff to general public properly.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't share the idea that don't using prefered pronouns it's a rude, or worse, extremist position. Pronouns and the words women, men, female and male are not insults. Moreover, this "basic courtesy" we are being asked to do is pretty one-sided. Nobody asked me if I find the association of womanhood with sexist stereotypes (which trans people usually rely on to "pass") offensive, for instance.

Yes, no one asked any of us. Moreover, the very same people who insist that others call them what they are not out of "respect" and "civility" seem to have no problem insulting women not just by reducing us to the sexist stereotypes they choose to ape, but by constantly calling us all the age-old slurs (such as cunt, bitch, whore, hag, old biddy, cow, slut) and by inventing a whole bunch of brand-new ways to demean and dehumanize us (vagina-owner, menstruator, uterus-haver, gestator, bleeder, etc) and to demonize us (TERF, SWERF, Nazi, Karen, causers of mass suicides).

But as those familiar with the etymology of the word "courtesy" and the history of manners and etiquette customs know, it's always people with the most power and privilege in societies who get to decide and dictate to everyone else exactly what constitutes courteous speech, behavior and dress and what is considered rude, impertinent, offensive and unacceptable. (After all, courtesy/courteous originally referred to the strict codes of etiquette governing how people dressed, spoke and conducted themselves in royal courts; and the notion of "acceptable" evolved from a term meaning "to take something to/for oneself.")

As the brilliant work of Norbert Elias first elucidated, and others have expanded on since, the entire enterprise of establishing social rules determining what's courteous and what's discourteous (impolite, rude, ill-mannered, etc) in Western culture has always been at least partly motivated by the desire of those who are dominant & most powerful to assert power & control over the individuals and classes below them, and to keep those with inferior status in our place - in part by keeping us so busy trying to learn, understand & conform to the set of burdensome and often constantly changing rules concerning minutiae that we don't have the time or energy to challenge the unreasonable, tyrannical exercise of power & control that's going on, or to notice & see it for what it is in the first place.

There's a long-running debate over whether the words "polite" and "politics" have the same root...But there's no doubt that when certain persons or groups of people demand that everyone else in the world speak to and about them using words that they alone have decided on and dictate to us the hoi polloi, they are engaging in a power play and dominance display merely disguised as a matter of principle and "politeness." If the words they demand we use for them actually run counter to reality, our own perceptions and what everyone knows to be true, these people are not only committing mass gaslighting in the guise of exercising their basic "human rights" and seeking "respect" - they are trying to get us to agree to do things that involve relinquishing our own human rights and diminishing our own self-respect. To which I think the only reasonable response goes something like this: https://youtu.be/ccenFp_3kq8

And like this: https://youtu.be/Lpds3V90VbM https://youtu.be/EKTPij6Kb6E https://youtu.be/QodGtTU69uQ

Since I've got YouTube open, these standards from 1963/64 seem apropos too: https://youtu.be/JDUjeR01wnU https://youtu.be/q4nmxz5bQhk https://youtu.be/RTVqZNObw5o

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

When transactivists lobbied for the self-ID (though they didn't call it that way, obviously) to be passed in my country, they focused on the concept of identity. They said the law wouldn't affect anyone else and it would only make their lives easier.

I don't know about other countries, but there are no such legal entities as "gender" and "identity" in the U.S. Activists insisting otherwise are lying. Activist organizations representing those claims are lying. The lie is based on a conceit that the legal definition of sex is transitive: if gender (because it's commonly used as a synonym for sex) = sex and sex is a protected category, then gender is a protected category. Once this is established, in accordance with QT concepts of fluidity, "gender" opens up to mean whatever the individual wants it to mean.

This is what hardcore Queer Theory looks like in action. Because relativistic fluidity applies to everything, it must also apply to legal definitions (categories) of things. It can admit no exceptions -- that would concede that rigor and structure have indisposable functions in the critique of reality.

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm from Argentina. Sorry, I should have specified. Here in 2012, a law was passed legalizing both self-ID and "medical transition" (before then, "SRS" was only possible with a judicial order, something that didn't start happening until around mid 90's).