QT: Where are the “trans men” athletes winning against men?

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Yes, the effects of testosterone on the body are permanent with bone structure and stuff. Males who transition should give up competitive sports. I don’t know why people push for it. I feel like it can’t be fair any other way.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I don' t necessarily think they should give up on sports, I just think that there should be leagues made specifically for them. I have zero problems with them competing against each other, just get someone to make the rules and what should be considered the limits and go for it.

I just don' t think that males should compete against females as a standard, nor I think that females on testosterone should compete against other females (or males, to be honest).

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I just think that there should be leagues made specifically for them.

But why separate sports leagues for people based on the way they prefer to dress, wear their hair, groom, modify their appearance & think of themselves? There's no rational basis for doing something so extreme & costly. Plus, instead of being "inclusive," this would "other" & ghettoize these athletes. It's time for the world of male athletics to budge up & help trans-identified males feel at home & safe in the sports - and locker rooms - of their own sex. Otherwise, we'll end up with separate sports leagues based on looks, adherence to sex stereotypes, people's identity claims and all factors that shouldn't affect sports eligibility in sports, like skin color and religion. This will lead to more divisiveness & segregation - and to more deeply-entrenched sexism, homophobia, racism & so on.

Women have always accepted that in female sports and locker rooms, the athletes will run the gamut from "feminine" looking "girly girls" to stone butches, with most of us somewhere in between. Why can't boys & men do the same? Why can't males be inclusive & kind to all types of males? Men need to look within themselves & figure out why they keep trying to banish males they see as "feminine," "sissies" & "unmanly" from the male category.

I just think that there should be leagues made specifically for them

Plus, who's gonna do the making here? Who's gonna put in the effort? If trans people want separate sports - which they don't - they've gotta step up to the plate & start lobbying for them. And they've gotta get down in the trenches & start building them. That's what women had to do. The sports, spaces & services women have today didn't suddenly fall out of the sky once laws were changed to make it illegal to discriminate against women based on our sex. Girls & women's sports, spaces & services came about coz generations of women put in the hard work to create & build them.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I mean, I agree with what you are saying, I was just making the point that if sports and gender identity were really that important for them, then making leagues specifically for them would be a good way to solve the problem. I am sure that there are millionaires willing to spend money and time over this if it were something they wanted.

Of course, I don' t believe that is what the issue is in the least: much like sex segregated spaces, it seems like it' s more about not letting women alone than anything else. If you read about the coverage for the bans on trans natal males in women' s leagues, it almost sounds like they are complaining for not being allowed to play sports, but of course we know that they are 100% able to do that, they just can' t do it in women' s leagues. So yeah, the problem isn' t that they want to play sports, it' s that they want to play against women.

[–]BiologyIsReal[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, this is ultimately about validation. And they crave it so much that they don't realise the sport issue will be their downfall. By that I mean, this is something that they can't hide. If transactivists have it their way, everyone will see through all their lies.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That’s a good thought! I’d be totally fine with them doing that. The competing with females is a problem though and I don’t like the way it’s putting trans people in the culture war. I feel like it could all be avoided just by being reasonable.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Without a doubt.

Most of the issues regarding this topic could be solved by being reasonable.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Among the "and stuff" is the fact that males have considerably larger, more powerful & efficient lungs and hearts. In comparably sized males and females, the males' hearts will be 28-35% larger. Males have much greater lung capacity too, which is one of the many reasons that in persons with cystic fibrosis given the same level of medical care, the males typically have better health & live longer than the females do. This has been consistently observed & documented since CF as a distinct disease was first identified & described in the 1950s.