QT: Where are the “trans men” athletes winning against men?

submitted by BiologyIsReal from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]worried19 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (5 children)

There are some trans competitors in male sports. I don't think any of them are breaking records against natal males, but at least a few are competitive.

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/stories/news/detail/transgender-boxer-pat-manuel-makes-history-with-first-professional-win

Testosterone can do a lot. It can probably give natal females the upper body strength to be competitive in some sports. Of course it can't change anything about height or limb length or lung capacity, so I would imagine there are plenty of sports where trans men still have a huge disadvantage.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Pat's story is same as story of that other transman in swimming and another one in marathon. They won there against some lowest ranked males, but their time in winning was still not enough to even qualify to a semi-professional sports, marathoner had time 10 hours more than minimal needed to participate in serious events, and swimmer was 5% slower than qualification time.

Similar story is here, Pat's opponent is super-light weight category fighter, with hegith 170 cm (5'7") and weight 47 kg (100 pounds), and boxing record of 1 win in semi-professional match and 8 loses in professional matches. And it is the only Pat's match as well.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

By the "marathoner," do you mean Chris Mosier? I don't think Mosier competed in the running event most people think of when we hear the word "marathon." Post-"transition," Mosier competed in a duathlon, which consisted of

a 5-kilometer run, a 20.55-kilometer cycling segment and a final 2.5-kilometer run to the finish

https://www.espn.com/sports/endurance/story/_/id/15976460/chris-mosier-becomes-first-known-transgender-athlete-compete-world-duathlon-championsh

Afterwards, Mosier switched to distance race walking & competed in the trials for the US Oympics Men’s 50km Race Walk, an event without many participants - & didn't finish due to injury.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Afterwards, Mosier switched to distance race walking & competed in the trials for the US Oympics Men’s 50km Race Walk, an event without many participants - & didn't finish due to injury.

I feel like I’ve read about a number of trans female athletes getting injured. I guess I’m wondering if it’s like less safe to exert yourself on T if you bone structure didn’t develop with a typical male puberty. During puberty, boys bones develop differently because of testosterone. If a female begins takes testosterone later, their bones have already developed without it and can’t really change (our bones fuse and stop growing eventually). It seems like something transmen who went through a female puberty should think about if true (and I don’t know why it wouldn’t be).

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exogenous T is hard on even male bodies. On female bodies, the impact of taking exogenous T is horrendous. It's why Buck Angel looks at least 20 years older than Buck's chronological age. To me, Chris Mosier looks much older than 40-41, too. Also, I noticed in looking at pictures of Mosier that when seen in profile, it's unmistakable from the shape of Mosier's head that this a female person. I don't say that to be mean. It's just that nature has arranged things so that there are tons of tiny aspects of human appearance that give away our sex. And whether through evolution or just through socialization, women tend to be very good about picking up on the tells.

BTW, when I saw that you wrote

trans female athletes

I thought at first you meant male athletes & had to reread a couple of times to get it straight. Coz in all the press coverage lately about the push in US state to pass laws protecting girls & women's sports from incursion by males using gender identity claims, the male athletes are constantly referred to as "trans female athletes" or as just "trans females."

Same thing has happened in the US federal Title IX court case challenging the CT rules that allowed Andraya Yearwood & Terry Miller to invade & clean up in girls's HS track. The judge earlier ruled that the lawyers for the female athletes are not allowed to refer to the male athletes as male - they have to be called "trans female athletes" or "trans females" instead. Then all the press chimed in that it was "cruel" & "inhumane" & "disrespectful" to refer to or ever mention the sex of these athletes all. Which as I'm sure you can see, basically means the lawyers for the girls in the case aren't allowed to argue their case or properly represent their clients. And which sticks in the craw of those who closely follow this case because in the girls' track meets where Terry Miller dominated, Miller always made a point of wearing skin-tight attire sure to show off a very prominent dick bulge.

The press calling persons like Miller "trans female athletes" is all part of the QT mission creep that is so distressing & insulting to so many of us boring, bog standard female people. First some males started calling themselves girls & women. But after a while, that wasn't enough. Now TRAs say they have to take the word female too.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't remember the name, sorry, but sounds familiar. Either it is the one, or such stories were happening more than once, which is not surprising - transmen are just females on steroids, and females on steroids never were close to males in sports.