How is identifying as transgender/nonbinary/whatever not catfishing?

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[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (14 children)

Understand that I am equally horrified by your views.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 6 fun8 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 6 fun -  (13 children)

Idgaf 🤷‍♀️

Imagine promoting the « right » to rape but being horrified that someone else understands how sex works and thinks trans people should respect others. Lmao

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (12 children)

It is not up to trans people to root out if their date is a transphobe, anymore than a jewish person has an obligation to find out if their date is antisemitic.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Not comparable. Jewish people aren’t lying about their sex (or lying by omission).

You want to encourage a dangerous and rapey tactic to get more trans people laid, I guess... go for it.

I’ll just place my counter to that here: It’s dangerous, and it’s a shitty thing to do, but I guess if you think you’re entitled to sex, even with someone who would never want to sleep with you if they knew you were trans, if you’re fine with the thought of potentially sexually violating someone so that you can be sexually validated and sexually satisfied, if you don’t care that in any other situation where someone concealed a fact just so they could get off, we’d all understand that they were in the wrong...basically, if the effect you may have on your victim partner is not something you care about, go ahead and go assault people... I guess? Because technically you can, and that makes it okay?? But don’t try to justify it, just call it what it is- you want to get laid, and that’s all that matters.

I think it’s wrong, it’s been heavily discussed and it seems common consensus that it’s wrong and rapey as fuck, but Idk i guess use your « get out of being accountable because I’m trans » card, I’ve heard it’s good for life, you can never use it too much. (Heavy on the /s)

I was glad to see you comment because at least you keep it interesting. But I don’t really want to waste my time on people who are pro rape so we’re done here.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (7 children)

It’s completely comparable to an antisemite being mad that a jewish person didn’t let them know that they were jewish. And thats why we’ll never agree on this.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

It’s not comparable.

You advocate for rape being allowed as long as it’s a trans person raping someone. It’s absurd to me. You’re right, we will never agree. Because I will never agree that someone’s desire to get laid matters more than someone else’s consent. But I’m not a rape apologist so maybe that’s why.

Word things however you want- no matter what you say, what false comparison you offer to try to justify, you support intentionally robbing a sexual partner of the ability to fully consent. That’s just the truth of the situation, there’s no way around it, but I’m sure you’ll try to find one.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Why don’t they just ask then if its such a big deal to them? Nothing is stopping them.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

People don’t tend to do that, I suppose people could just go around asking everyone they are interested in if they are trans, but the fact is that people instinctively assume sex, and passing trans people are rare. And what’s to stop a trans person who was already fine with concealing the truth from lying when asked directly? can’t trust them to just be honest upfront, but sure, trust them to be honest specifically about what they weren’t honest about initially, if we make sure to put them on the spot?

Unless they’re specifically looking for trans people, most people take for granted that someone is the sex they present themselves to be.

But also- “why don’t people just ask everyone ahead of time to make sure that they aren’t sexually violated?”

Really? Rather than the person who could potentially be violating someone’s boundaries being honest?

Are you trying to pretend that trans people aren’t aware that dating and or sleeping with trans people is a “touchy” subject (to put it mildly)? They know it’s something that could make dating more difficult and dangerous for them, and they know that honesty (whether they have no choice because they don’t pass or they do pass but respect others enough to disclose to potential partners) means their dating pool is significantly smaller than most people’s. My point is this- if you know you being trans may be a “dealbreaker”, not to a specific person, but in general, and you aren’t honest- it’s not about safety, because someone who would react violently will be a hell of a lot more angry to have had sex with a trans person than to have almost gone on a date with one- it’s because you want to get laid and that desire matters more than how the other person feels and even possibly more than your own safety.

Maybe that’s not exactly rape, but “they should have asked if they didn’t want to sleep with a trans person” is not far off from the “she didn’t say no” and “she liked it” excuse so many rapists have given

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But also- “why don’t people just ask everyone ahead of time to make sure that they aren’t sexually violated?”

It is typical victim blaming. So many males have such position for some reason.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is absolutely different, because being jew does not change that you have or have not penis, does not change biology. Rape by deception is not like not saying your nationality.

What it would be comparable is if your sex partner will be mad that you not said to them about you having HIV. That is similar thing, which is comparable. It is when person would otherwise would not give you consent, you know it but you lied to get in bed with them in hope they will try to be nice as sleep with you anyways, or that they will be too afraid to protest to a male (I remember my university years, when male teacher who was half a meter taller than me started to sexually harass and advance to me, and I was too scared that he will just murder me if I oppose or try to run, fear paralyzed me, but other teacher came there and so this one tried to make it looks like nothing happened and fled). So those are absolutely different things as "hiding your nationality", because nationality changes absolutely nothing biologically.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Its not rape by deception, if you have a problem with trans people then the onus is on you to find out if your romantic partner is trans.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is rape by deception, because sexualities are not working based on gender identities, sexualities are based on sex. And trying to trick people to have sex with genitals they can not be attracted at all - is rape by deception.

[–]Juniperius 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

One of several reasons that makes this a bad comparison is that nobody expects to be able to tell by looking whether someone is Jewish. Religious beliefs are an intangible, internal quality, and Jews, like Muslims, Christians, atheists, etc come in all colors and appearances and both sexes. There may or may not be clues, and everyone takes for granted that you don't know people's religion unless they tell you. This is not at all like which sex someone is, which is obvious at a glance 99.9% of the time, and generally takes a lot of effort and money to hide - which means if someone is not the sex they appear, this is an active deception. Active deception is not equivalent to something you would never expect to know without asking.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

QT viewpoint:

There may or may not be clues, and everyone takes for granted that you don't know people's sex trait status unless they tell you.

[–]Juniperius 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know that's the qt viewpoint, and my comment describes several reasons why it is false.

It's like if you believed the moon was made of green cheese, and I said to you, "no because green cheese has such and such characteristics, and the moon has this entirely other set of characteristics," and you responded, "yes, the green cheese characteristics are what we believe the moon is like."