Ok, it's time to update the rules

submitted by grixitperson[M] from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (15 children)

I’ve heard the logic I just don’t agree. I find that for me terms like male and female are just as or even more offensive than TiM of TiF. I would prefer them honestly.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

That makes no sense to me at all. Tim is just male but purposefully more insulting.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

I don’t see how it is. It’s just a more con isn’t way of saying “male people who identify as trans women”. It seems functionally equivalent to calling trans people male. As for the “name” aspect I don’t consider names to be inherently gendered so it doesn’t bother me.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You are entitled to your opinion but we couldn’t be more disparate on this.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Of course.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I feel like TIM/TIF are always used by people think we are bad for most part. I read lots of GC content and it’s always negative towards the people those term refer to. Male and female can be neutral. If you feel like it’s in an insult to be male, that sort of is a personal hang up I feel like.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I never used it to be insulting, I didn’t realize it was used as an insult for a long time.

I’m not at all advocating for adding it as an acceptable term, just offering that for me, I preferred using it in some instances because I understood it to mean that a trans person identified as trans, as opposed to as a man or a woman. I guess it felt less misogynistic to me to think that a “tim” is a male with dysphoria who connects internally with his perception of women and wanting to appear as one- as opposed to truly thinking of himself as a woman, if that makes sense? my brain is a mess but it just seemed like a more accurate and less sexist way of saying “identify as a woman”. I didn’t realize that trans people were upset because the acronyms were gendered names, I thought they were upset because it implied they didn’t in fact identify as the opposite sex, only the desire to be the opposite sex.

In hindsight that was a pretty stupid interpretation for me lol

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hi loveSloane! Maybe it’s my fault for spending so much time lurking in GC spaces, but I feel like it’s the only group that uses those words and everything said using them is negative. Years ago, GC used MTT or FTT instead, but they moved to TIM/TIF because of the misgendering aspect. I can’t link anything anymore since it’s gone, but people on r/GC said as much. I feel like if you want to refer to a trans person neutrally while acknowledging sex, there are better ways. I’m sure you didn’t mean it in a negative way, but I feel like the words have baggage at this point (not unlike the terf slur, albeit to a lesser degree).

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No I’m agreeing with you! lol just wording things badly. I’m saying I thought it was a neutral term and eventually realized it wasn’t. I was trying to say when I first heard of the terms I thought they had an entirely different meaning

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol. It could be me too. I’ve been all over the place mentally this week. 😜

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Nah it isn’t “being male” that is an insult, it’s “applying a term that I don’t believe actually exists” that is the insult. It’s the same feeling that GC presumably has towards the term “cis”. They’re not offender by being cis, they’re offended at having a term they believe is part of an opposite ideology applied to them that is offensive. In any case my point was that given that the more offensive term (to me personally) is allowed, then why ban people from saying a acronym that is functionally equivalent (and honestly a little less offensive to me personally as it’s at least in acronym form) but with that added utility of referencing trans women specifically? If the other trans people here view it as more insulting though I suppose that’s reason enough to ban it.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Nah it isn’t “being male” that is an insult, it’s “applying a term that I don’t believe actually exists” that is the insult.

So you’d equally put off if people insisted on saying you were female? I’m skeptical. :P

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

If they’re using it in a transmedicalist way to exclude people who haven’t gotten surgeries or hrt like I have? Yes I would be equally put off. If they’re using it as a gender label equivalent to the term “woman”? Then no I wouldn’t be put off.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You can’t accept male or female being just a biological term though, like it can only be transmedicalist or gender term? Does using it in a different way make the word real? I guess I feel like biology can be neutral and not wanting to accept biology is usually because of it being invalidating towards your gender feelings, which seems to be in line with your answer. If you would be okay with female, it’s seems clear it’s about gender feelings.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Not really. I don’t consider the use of “male” and “female” to be appropriate when used to describe biology because I believe that sex is a spectrum. Applying it to me therefore is exactly the same as applying “cis” to GC people, as neither of us thinks those terms are being legitimately used (presumably GC has no problems with the terms in chemistry). I accept biology and that sex traits exist I just disagree with the binary sex paradigm that classifies that biology into one of two idealized boxes. I would be fine with “female” as a gender term just as I am fine with “women” as a gender term, because again the issue I have is with the use of the terms is trying to apply an ideology that I don’t believe in too me, not the terms in and of themselves.

This is all I’ll say further on the matter as this topic is not the topic of the post, and I don’t want to derail the discussion. No offense of course :)

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks for explaining! I won’t ask anything else.