Both: What do you think of the new Super Straight movement?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

it's about disgust and moral disapproval.

Except one is disgust at men performing the inferior subjugating role that God/nature has created women to perform (a belief held by traditional and gender nonconforming men in equal amounts), the other is disgust over a mode of presentation almost equated with womanhood that exists solely to normalise women being objectified and treated as sex objects for the consumption of misogynistic men. Men who get their rocks off to crossdressing and being sissies are not giving the middle finger to gender roles or rejecting male supremacy one bit, they have the same views as your average male supremacist, except they jack off to something different. Fetish =/= political views.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

hi adungitit

Well I don't think it quite works like that.

Do you think masculinity is sexual? Do you think most women find masculinity sexually attractive?

[–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Masculinity sexual? Wat?

Do you think most women find masculinity sexually attractive?

No.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

No.

That doesn't seem a realistic version of things. You think gendered sexuality is entirely about body parts? I don't see that at all.

[–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Can you explain why you said that masculinity is sexual? If you say something dumb and the person calls you out on it, then you have to explain it, or abandon the viewpoint. Otherwise, don't get involved in debate subs.

That doesn't seem a realistic version of things

I mean, who am I to argue with the masturbatory proper world order of nice guys and Chads?

You think gendered sexuality is entirely about body parts?

No? People can develop fetishes and sexual interests in all kinds of unhealthy and immoral things or ideas. That doesn't suddenly make them healthy or moral. It also doesn't change the need for people with sex-based attraction to define themselves. I don't give a damn how people describing their fetishes or sexual preferences as long as they're not appropriating the language of persecuted and discriminated groups to the point of meaninglessness.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Can you explain why you said that masculinity is sexual?

Masculinity is there in a popular erotic literature, written by women for women, even in fandom for no money.

You can call it immoral and unhealthy but it's there. Are you saying that isn't sexual appreciation of masculinity?

[–]adungitit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I mean, yeah, both men and women are brainwashed and groomed into fetishising female inferiority and male superiority (women to a far lesser degree for obvious reasons, despite male masturbatory worldviews insisting otherwise, but then maybe you shouldn't be listening to male wisdom about women in the first place). I don't disagree one bit, hence why we need feminism. Pedophilia is also there, as are drug addicts and car crashes etc. People being awful doesn't suddenly make them not awful just because...they're awful? Hust as people thinking things doesn't make them right just because it's "their opinion". In the simplest terms, people being shitty does not make them not shitty. Can we make this bizarre illogical take that an argument is valid just because it exists stop being so popular?

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The vast majority of women don't think enjoying the masculinity in erotic books is the moral equivalent of paedophilia. They feel quite strongly about that.

[–]adungitit 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Perhaps you should stop assuming that erotic books represent the preferences of the majority of women and that heterosexual women being forced into a patriarchal sexuality with no alternative is representative of female sexuality. Women adapting to male sexuality because they've been brainwashed to think of themselves as inferior in all aspects and that their needs are unimportant or nonexistent except as a response to male sexuality and ego only demonstrates omnipresent sexual misogyny, androcentrism and male entitlement (no shit), but little else. The high rates of female sexual dysfunction and preferences for observing as outsiders rather than partaking tell a different story than the "submissive women happy with misogyny" fairy tale. Their orgasm rates with almost universally dominant male partners don't follow suit.

[–]theory_of_thisan actual straight crossdresser 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The high rates of female sexual dysfunction and preferences for observing as outsiders rather than partaking tell a different story than the "submissive women happy with misogyny" fairy tale. Their orgasm rates with almost universally dominant male partners don't follow suit.

Well I've yet to see that proven.

"Men and women are sexually identical" seems like the fairytale.