Both: Early childhood socialization and what causes people to become trans

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]anxietyaccount8 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is true of many people who are not "LGBT" as well.

True, I didn't mean to imply otherwise! The worst offenders of this stereotyping are those that believe in gender ideology, not even straight people. I just called it "heteronormative" because that's probably where the idea of "men need to be masculine, so therefore gay men must be feminine because they don't fit in" originated.

It is really shocking that in previous years, people seemed more comfortable with being casually "GNC" than right now!

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It is really shocking that in previous years, people seemed more comfortable with being casually "GNC" than right now!

Yes, it is. I often feel like I'm living the life of an "Alien in Genderland." In the 70s, 80s and 90s, nobody thought twice about men wearing long hair, frilly clothes and makeup, or women wearing buzz cuts, shaved heads and men's clothing. I don't consider myself particularly "gender non-conforming" - cuz I tend not to see myself or others through the lens of the sex stereotypes that are "gender" - but I have had very short hair for most of my life (even shaved my head in the 80s), as most women I know have, and I've always worn some boys and men's clothing and accessories.

Used to be, girls and women had to wear men's clothing for various activities coz certain items - such as a lot of sports, workout and outdoor clothing, motorcycle jackets, work coveralls, safety gear, shoes like Vans, Doc Martens, steel-toed work boots and LL Bean boots - originally were only made for men. Also, in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, there were lots of unisex clothing stores and hair salons.

[–]anxietyaccount8 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's wild to me. In the 2020s, any female who dresses that way would surely be calling herself "non-binary." But part of that is because of the sheer number of young people identifying as queer.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But you don't mean that any female of any age who dresses that way would be calling herself an enby, do you?

The tendency to call one's self "non binary" seems to me to be something exclusive to very young people, and only some young people at that. Of all the people I know, only very few in their 30s, 40s and beyond define themselves according the sex stereotypes they prefer or reject, and hardly anyone feels a need to adopt and flaunt labels that announce to the world which set of sex stereotypes they embrace and which they eschew. This doesn't mean that these people are accepting of sex stereotypes and have never thought of them. On the contrary most people have thought about sex stereotypes growing up and at other junctures in life, and most have decided to reject some, embrace others, put up with some and ignore the bulk.

Most of the older people I know who are into gender labels and "my pronouns" are trans-identified people I've met coz of the new politics around sex and gender. Outside of those small circles, no one I know over age 30 is into gender identity labels - though most of these same people are "gender non-conforming" in myriad ways, particularly according to the the rigid stereotypes many people in their teens and 20s today believe have always been the norm. For example, in my generation (I'm 66), it's quite common for men to be into cooking and baking and various artistic endeavors. But I've had many people now in their early 20s tell me in the past couple of years that cooking and baking, painting and drawing, and playing any musical instrument other than the guitar and drums are things only female people do.