GC: Is sexual attraction only based on genitals, or is there more to sexual attraction (e.g. attraction to secondary sexual characteristics, "femininity", "masculinity", etc)?

submitted by Not_a_celebrity from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

Sexual orientation is about sex. I feel like the things that we’re attracted to are more than genitals, of course, but genitals are very important. I don’t think I could have a relationship with a transman even if I found them very attractive on the surface.

I don’t think you can be monosexual and be okay with different genitals or people of different sexes. That would make you at least bi. I feel like at certain times like the terms become less useful though. Like, by husband certainly considers himself straight even though we are technically in a homosexual relationship. He only ever dated or had sex with females though and began our relationship believing that I was that too. If someone described him as bi, it would probably just be confusing.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

But if he was always with females, and is now with a male, isn't he a bisexual that doesn't want to accept he's not "straight"? Is a man that is with a "trans woman" really "straight"? Would it even make sense for a man that was always with females to get into a gay relationship and say he's still "straight"? 🙃 If not bi, then should we call him a fetishist?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

Maybe. I’m not going to try to convince him though, lol. I don’t think in a million years he could have been with a TW with a penis, so I feel like that gives him some straight points at least. I don’t go out of my way to remind him I am male though or anything like that and he doesn’t think of me that way.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

So you're helping deceiving him that he's with a woman? I think he's homophobic. It's like Blaire White's husband. He thinks he's with a "woman", but he's with a man. He just doesn't want to accept he's not "straight". Blaire White doesn't remind him he's in a gay relationship either, he thinks he's a "woman" in a "straight relationships". Your husband too doesn't think of you that way, which means he's deceiving himself. He doesn't want to accept he's with a man. A man that has no penis. A man without a penis is still a man. And a man that is in a relationship with a man without a penis isn't more "straight" or less "gay" just because his partner doesn't have a penis 🤔

I think it's best to remind him, and burst that bubble. It's worse to help lie to him and make him go to that grave all the while thinking he's "straight" just because his male partner removed his penis, wears dresses, etc.

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I'm not sure Blaire's fiance thinks of himself as straight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiFPIfN99N0

Blaire also hasn't had bottom surgery.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Thanks for the link. I watched that video and it bothers me that he keeps calling that "trans woman" he walked on the beach with "she", even after knowing that's a "trans woman". They seem to joke about the fiance being gay, but I don't know if he himself understands he's not "straight" outside of him joking with Blaire. He seems to be like "I dated girls before, and then trans women, it's hard to put my sexuality in a box" type? He doesn't seem to want to say he's bi or gay.

[–]worried19 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I'd call him some level of bisexual, but I also think society is too focused on labels and boxes. He is who he is, and Blaire is who she is. We're all human beings at the end of the day.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It just doesn't make sense to call a man that has been with men and women anything but gay or bisexual. Bisexual doesn't mean 50/50 attraction, that's a mistake people make. When someone says they are more attracted to one sex than another people think they shouldn't be put in a box, or that labels are useless. There are varying levels of bisexuality though, and Blaire's spouse would be on one of those levels. Either that, or he's gay, and his previously dating women does not count. Blaire himself is a gay man. He has internalized homophobia, and hates being gay, that's the whole reason he thinks he's a "woman in a straight relationship".

and Blaire is who she is

He*

[–]worried19 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Well, I agree he's bisexual to some degree. As far as Blaire goes, I'm happy to use preferred pronouns for adult transsexuals who are living their lives in good faith. Blaire doesn't pretend that she's not biologically male.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

"She" refers to someone that is biologically female. It is contradictory to call a biological male "she" just because he feels like a woman. And he's not "living in good faith". He's a homophobe. He's anti-feminist. And he is a trans-medicalist, and trans-medicalists are worse than the ordinary "trans", because these are the ones believing that there is a "female" or "male" brain, that "gender is not a social construct", and that a "trans man" is a "male brain in a female body" or a "trans woman" is a "female brain in a male body" who should get hormones and surgery for their body to match their brain: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9WqfBDjRF8&t=191s

Many GCs worship Blaire. While he accepts he's biologically male, he doesn't spend his day do day reminding himself of that, he thinks he's a "woman in a straight relationship", worse, a man with a "female brain". Why let a homophobe get what he wants?

I don't think using anyone's preferred pronouns is a good idea. If Blaire understands he's biologically male, he should understand he shall be treated as a biological male, not a woman just because he got surgeries and hormones to look like the most stereotypical form people think a "woman" looks like. A woman is not big boobs, make up, and dresses. And calling Blaire "she" will enforce misogyny.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

A man without a penis is still a man

Yes. As the experience of many men who've lost their dicks, and/or balls, and sometimes their entire lower bodies, due to war injuries, explosions, accidents and disease shows. Hemingway dealt with this topic 100 years ago in a famous novel known worldwide.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Can you tell me what you think of this comment?: https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/7do7/gc_is_sexual_attraction_only_based_on_genitals_or/rtr2

Screenshot for if it gets deleted: https://imgur.com/uFWmBrw

It says that sexual attraction can't be purely based on "birth sex" (perhaps they mean "sex assigned at birth") as it would be reductive, and that it should also be based on "apparent gender" (which I think they mean what someone "passes as"). They give an example of a homophobic family. If a girl introduces her "bf", a "trans woman" who "passes as" a woman, to the family without mentioning "bf", and "trans woman", the family would become hostile, as they'd think she's with a woman.

If a gay man meets a "trans man" that "passes as" a man, and becomes attracted to him, without the "trans man" telling him she's a woman and not a man, he'd think he's attracted to a man. Would this mean sexual attraction is more than sex, or genitals, and has to do with secondary sexual characteristics and what sex someone "passes as" on the outside even if they are not that sex?

There is more to the comment than what I summarized, so please tell me what you think of those parts as well.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry, not gonna try to make sense of that coz it comes off as gibberish to me. But with the exception of pedophiles, sexual attraction is not based on "birth sex" coz most people are not sexually attracted to newborns or young children. Most people are sexually attracted to persons who have reached or been through the puberty of adolescence.

Also, there is no such thing as "birth sex." There is only sex. The sex of humans is determined at the moment of conception. Scientists have found observable, clear-cut distinct sex differences in the cells of human zygotes at 6/7 days post conception. Scientists have also found that there are distinct sex differences between male and female embryos even before the development of the gonads at circa 7 weeks (in gestational time, which is approx 5 weeks post-conception) and the effects of the sex hormones that follow once the male or female gonads form.

The sex of human fetuses can be determined by sonogram with 100% accuracy at 70 days post conception (circa 12 weeks in gestational time). Sex can also be determined at 8-9 weeks gestational age (6-7 weeks post conception) via genetic testing of placental tissue obtained via CVS and of blood taken from a pregnant woman in a standard blood draw via the NIPT.

The ability to determine fetal sex is not new. Amniocentesis was developed in the 1950s and 60s, and has been widely used when indicated since the early 70s. Fetal sonograms have been in use since 1972. I had CVS at 8 weeks 30 years ago.

In my view, people who use term "birth sex" are basically waving a big red flag that shows they have never carried a pregnancy or been closely involved with a pregnancy. It's a term that totally overlooks the "lived experience" of hundreds of millions (perhaps billions) of women, and their partners, who have been pregnant since the era of in utero genetic testing and customary fetal scanning began in the 1970s.

IMO, using the term "birth sex" is also actually very cruel, and potentially re-traumatizing, to many of the millions of women who've miscarried fetuses whose sex was already known due to in-utero testing or coz genetic testing of the fetal remains was carried out after the miscarriage.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I mean, I don’t think I’m deceiving him. He knows about my history. He can ask me anything and I will tell him. He even knows the name my parents gave me as baby. He doesn’t really like talking about that stuff though and I don’t really either. I wouldn’t want him to see me as a man and it’s not how I usually think of myself or how people see me in the world. I could understand why some people might be upset about it though or feel like it’s not honest. It’s complicated. I just feel like sometimes labels can get confusing.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why are you here when you believe in the "gender identity" ideology? You think you're a woman, but then you know you're a man, but then you don't want people to think of you as the man you are, so you don't say anything to your husband about you being a man, and you let people assume you are a woman eventhough you are not. That is dishonest, it is deception. If I met you, couldn't tell you're a man, used "she", and you didn't correct me that you're a man, I'd feel deceived. But whatever. I don't think labels are confusing. You TQs always make them seem confusing. A man is in a relationship with a man? He's either gay or bi, doesn't matter if the guy has a penis or not, or thinks he's a woman. It's really simple.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I think it's best to remind him, and burst that bubble. It's worse to help lie to him and make him go to that grave all the while thinking he's "straight" just because his male partner removed his penis, wears dresses, etc.

I feel like he’s fully aware of our situation. He just sees me how he sees me and likewise with himself. I don’t think I can “burst that bubble.” I’m just me and am not trying to support any type of lie. We totally aren’t homophobic either.

[–]Not_a_celebrity[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If he's aware of your situation, it makes no sense for him to think of you as a woman, or not think of you as a man. But you said you don't want him or others to think of you as the man you are, which means you are supporting a lie: https://imgur.com/YDd1Hah

I wouldn't want him to see me as a man, and it's not how I usually think of myself or how people see me in the world

You not only don't want your husband to realize you are a man, but also made other people think you're a woman. You want people to either believe a lie or lie to you even if they know the truth.

You both are homophobic, not in a "gay is eww" way conservatives directly tell us. In a TQ way of "I don't want to be seen as a man" which means you want to erase yourself and your identity as a man in a gay relationship and want to be seen as a "woman in a straight relationship". Your husband also tries to lie to himself that he's not with a man, but a woman, and supposedly is in a "straight relationship". This is homophobic.