ALL: Would removing "real life experience" requirements from trans healthcare benefit everyone?

submitted by ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

How does it make accessing women's space easier? Pretending to be a woman is a requirement for the surgery, not vice versa.

It's creating a system where the medical establishment is actively encouraging men to enter women's spaces. I don't understand who you think this benefits.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Because most men getting this surgery are saying they are women...they use women’s spaces whether their dick is gone or not. They want to be there. Very few claim they are forced. They actively seek it out.

Men like yourself are even less common than transgender ones.

I don’t think anyone benefits from cosmetic genital surgery, and women do not benefit at all. I don’t care about whether men are benefitting and you will find most women here don’t care either. You personally getting easier access to surgery does not benefit women or anyone else.

A medical establishment that benefits anyone is one that does not perform invasive sterilising surgery on people to alleviate mental distress.

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Well if they insist that they're women and use women's spaces, then the barrier of "has to live as a woman" doesn't matter to them, since they're already doing it.

This change would only matter to men like me who don't want to go out in public calling themselves women or using women's spaces.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

Right, a tiny handful of men who are not a priority to feminists, and who benefit far more than any woman ever could from such a proposal, whilst also making access even easier for all the other men who think woman is a feeling to get surgery.

Really men are the ones benefitting from this. women get nothing since men are in our spaces regardless of whether or not men have to perform femininity for surgery.

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Right, a tiny handful of men who are not a priority to feminists, and who benefit far more than any woman ever could from such a proposal, whilst also making access even easier for all the other men who think woman is a feeling to get surgery.

1: they would already have access to the surgery.

2: I don't get how men having this surgery would hurt women. How does me not having a penis harm you or any other woman?

Really men are the ones benefitting from this. women get nothing since men are in our spaces regardless of whether or not men have to perform femininity for surgery.

Some men might not especially want to pretend to be women or use women's spaces, but do so because it's listed as a requirement to get the surgery. If this change occurred, those men wouldn't do that anymore. I have no interest in using women's spaces but really want this, and would be forced to identify as a woman in order to get it.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Men who have the surgery harm women. Men who have the surgery get counted as women in news and crime stats. Men who have the surgery do not become any less male and do not become magically harmless to females. Men accessing women’s spaces is harming women. It’s removing our right to have those spaces and it’s taking away safety from women.

I suggest finding some basic gc and radfem points and reading them to understand.

Some men might blah blah blah. So? That’s for men to deal with. It doesn’t effect women whether you’re forced to or not, because men are taking our spaces away regardless. What would you like women to do about barriers made by men for men?

[–]adungitit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Men who have the surgery get counted as women in news and crime stats.

This is a problem with society counting these men as women, rather than men getting surgeries.

Men accessing women’s spaces is harming women

They can access these spaces with and without surgery anyways, because surgery in many places isn't even required for a person to be counted as the opposite sex.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Yep. And making it easier will not help women in any way. And I’m ethically against cosmetic genital surgery.

[–]adungitit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

How does genital surgery make it easier or not easier for men to access female spaces? Since when do we look into a person's pants every time they enter a bathroom? If there is any confusion, we look at their ID, and legal female sex can now be obtained by enough people that the increasing numbers of male people (both trans and not) barging into female spaces is starting to become a noticeable problem.

Also being ethically against something =/= outlawing it.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It makes the entire transgender claim easier to make, puts men in places like gynocologists offices.

Men are already a problem and allowing unethical surgery doesn’t help.

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Men who have the surgery harm women. Men who have the surgery get counted as women in news and crime stats. Men who have the surgery do not become any less male and do not become magically harmless to females. Men accessing women’s spaces is harming women. It’s removing our right to have those spaces and it’s taking away safety from women.

All of this applies equally to men who don't have this surgery, so I don't think the surgery is what's causing the problem here.

I suggest finding some basic gc and radfem points and reading them to understand.

I have probably spent several hundred hours of my life reading things written by radical feminists on here, on twitter, and on reddit before GC was banned.

What would you like women to do about barriers made by men for men?

Not deliberately try to keep those barriers in place. For example, in the UK, people who can't get hormone therapy through the NHS with its numerous restrictions and 4 years queue time are ordering it from the EU, and there's been efforts recently by radfems to criminalize that. Could you please not do that? I'm not invading your spaces or anything, can't you stay out of my life as long as I stay out of yours?

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh you aren’t doing it so women should vote against our own interests for you? Should we make you a sandwich while we’re at it?

Can you take your self-interest to a men’s group where it belongs?

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

How is it against your own interests? You never explained how men who cut off their penises are more dangerous to women than men who do not.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because they are men using women’s spaces. You not wanting to do that does not stop these men.

By using these spaces, the men have chosen to deny women the right to sex segregated spaces and that is in and of itself the harm. Also all the rapes and filming and flashing. For someone who claims to have read about gc for years you needed a really basic part spoonfed to you there.

Penis or no penis men are dangerous and have zero right to women’s spaces. Removing barriers and making it easier for these harmful men to get their junk rearranged and become women in the eyes of the law meaning women lose the ability to remove the dickless men.

Actually read gc points and you’d already know this. You’d also know how bad an idea it is to walk into a space focussed on female rights to say “I’m a really nice guy so please vote for what I want and not you? You gals should really be helping me, the suffering man :(“

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The thing is, it may be required for the surgery, but it’s not required for the spaces, and most TW claim to be women and never get the surgery. I think that’s what we’re trying to point out.

Eta- this wasn’t where I meant to put this comment

[–]ntr4ctrAdult Male with gender dysphoria[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

which comment are you trying to reply to?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I can’t remember I had three people messaging me over three posts I got mixed up, my bad.