QT: A question of ideology

submitted by loveSloaneDebate King from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (32 children)

Where? I am arguing that whilst needing to be a seperate category from women, transwomen deserve and have the right to safety and community in third spaces. What about that infringes on your rights?

But doing nothing to create those despite trying to strip us of what rights and access we have. And third spaces work for necessary spaces but you can’t have trans only “community” it doesn’t work because community required a social element.

Name the right, even, instead of just crying the same presumably copy+pasted accusation.

Literally all of them but employment. All the school protections that have come up in the circuit courts are based on the women’s protections in title 9 for instance.

No? Morals aren’t even universal so that’s just silly.

So you stab someone you don’t think you are morally required to keep them from dying more than a stranger who stumbles on the stabbing victim,?

what are you doing personally to ameliorate the harm done to women by males taking their spaces?

Supporting women’s shelters and harsher penalties for domestic violence and sex crimes despite generally advocating for substantially reduced sentences for most other crimes for the be. But also I’m not actually doing anything to expose women to harm so that’s not out of obligation.

As you are well aware, it’s pointless to try and convince me that it is a woman’s role to protect a category of men.

Trans women aren’t men, you are trying to change our classification to men. That’s what’s creating the harm requiring us to be newly protected. You are the ones engineering us to be in danger then arguing it isn’t your responsibility. Men are doing the harm but you are still causing it

Women can’t stop men from hurting us, how do you think we’re gonna magically fix shit for you without giving up our own protection?

You’ve got a better chance than we do and I’m not advocating to make it more likely for men to hurt you but you are advocating for men to be able to hurt us.

It’s particularly bizarre to constantly accuse me of causing the state of affairs for transgender people in America.

You are advocating for changes that would cause the harm. So if it were enacted based on your advocacy it would be your responsibility. How would it not be?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

You just straight up ignore things like “I’m not American and can’t change your shit laws” and “ideology” dontcha?

Sorry all the rights isn’t recognised as a right? Can’t find it in a single charter.

Transwomen are men. Because men means nothing more than born male. What you choose to believe on top of that is your own business.

And no, if I stabbed someone, I’m not obliged to help them. If I’ve stabbed someone I’m in fact almost definitely not there to help them in any capacity because I’m stabbing them lmfao. What a stupid scenario to try and shame my morals

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (30 children)

You are still arguing for it. Whether you can vote on it isn’t material.

Trans women aren’t men. In body, in the way society treats them, power, all wildly disparate.

And no, if I stabbed someone, I’m not obliged to help them.

Then I consider you fundamentally a moral and there’s no point in further conversation

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

Lmao so stabbing someone isn’t amoral but not helping them is. You are too much.

You can’t tackle my ideology in any capacity so yet again resort to blaming me personally and making up bizarre moral quandaries to judge me by as if it’s relevant or actually reflective of who I am.

I find you fundamentally misogynistic but I’m sure you’ll argue that my findings aren’t allowed but you’re free to call me fundamentally amoral over one extremely foolish question.

Should you gain the ability to argue the things actually important or relevant is maybe care about your dismissal. As it stands, your dismissal is a very thin veil for your total lack of actual arguments in favour of a round about ad hominem. Learn to argue mate.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

Lmao so stabbing someone isn’t amoral but not helping them is. You are too much.

Of course stabbing someone is immoral but not helping them when you’ve injured them makes it worse.

If you can’t even agree that creating harm causes a moral obligation to cure it there is no way we can have an actual conversation about morality.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

You can’t have a conversation about morality with any disagreement. That’s on you and your closed mind.

For the rest of us, morals are complex, nuanced, and thankfully not a black and white dogma so thick that strangers can be called totally amoral over a single daft scenario.

What if the person I stabbed was raping me? Stabbing a box of puppies? Slashing at a little old lady?

What if I’m a soldier? Or a severely abused child with CPTSD interpreting a threat to my life? What if I was on PCP? Or having a psychotic break?

For someone who says there is no further point to conversation you sure do bang on about your supposed moral superiority a lot. Notable that you once again ignore the parts of my comments where you can’t form an argument. This is such a tired method of showing your poor faith and poor debate skills.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

What if the person I stabbed was raping me? Stabbing a box of puppies? Slashing at a little old lady?

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm. Call 911, call for help, pressure the wound. Something.

What if I’m a soldier? Or a severely abused child with CPTSD interpreting a threat to my life? What if I was on PCP? Or having a psychotic break?

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm you caused.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

This is one of the worst things you’ve said in this sub. I can’t even say something snarky to you about it because what the actual fuck???? When I said on another post that you say things that scare me, I still didn’t expect you to say something like this.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

So you defend yourself against an attacker and hurt them badly, you would just let them die? How does that not horrify you? You can’t just let people die.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I would call the police perhaps, but no I don’t think the safety of a fucking rapist who likely raped others as well as me would be my priority if I had to stab someone to protect myself.

Get some fucking help. ASAP. Please.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

You clearly have exactly no understanding of what it’s like to be in any of those scenarios then.
Lmao someone in the midst of psychosis, someone who is literally experiencing a different reality, or a terrified child experiencing flashbacks to extreme violence is morally failing by not providing assistance.

A woman is a moral failure if she does not get help for the man who was raping her.

Sure, IM the one with questionable morals here. I’m beyond disgusted. Thanks for the new flair tho.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Not at all surprised that the response was “help your rapist if you stab them to stop the rape. It’s your moral duty.”

I had a split moment of “wait what the fuck are they saying” until I remembered who you were talking to. Sounds about right for masks, sadly- though a bit worse than I expected. Women aren’t allowed to protect themselves if it means a man doesn’t get what he wants or may get hurt.

Fantastic flair :)

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Masks seems like they will never move on from “women owe it to me to be my shield from evil men” but “women are morally obliged to help men who harm them” is a new development. Wish I was surprised but misogyny always leads to more misogyny, doesn’t it?

Seriously, tras hand me some truly fantastic quotes for flairs. Feminism is for whales was top tier from GB. This new one from masks is -chefs kiss- perfect summary of 97% of all tra talking points.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Then you still have a duty to mitigate harm. Call 911, call for help, pressure the wound. Something.

Seriously! I don’t even know how to respond to this. Do you have any idea how this reads for someone who has been raped (or anyone with empathy)? We don’t owe him shit. We just need to get away.