Is the "RudeFem" Stereotype Desirable to GC or Is It An Unfortunate Association?

submitted by LemurLemur from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]worried19 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Some gender critical women embrace the stereotype. Some of us don't.

I think the bottom line is that it doesn't matter how nice we are. J.K. Rowling bent over backwards to be nice and compassionate and caring, and look what it got her. Endless rape and death threats. Certain people hate us for what we say, not how we say it.

[–]LemurLemur[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm struggling to understand this, so definitely correct me if I'm understand wrong. When I used to lurk on the old debate sub, I saw many trans people and GC people get along, be courteous and even agree on some topics. It was really nice to see.

Does GC do anything to distinguish trans people who don't send death and rape threats as perhaps not warranting the same treatment as those who do? Because it might "not matter" to a GC individual who assumes all trans people are rapist no matter how you treat them, but I think to a trans person who hasn't harassed female celebrities (which is most of them), it would probably matter a lot to not be treated like one.

Am I making sense?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Are you serious? Did you make a post about gc women being rude and then have the nerve comment asking if we (gc) distinguish between the trans people who send death threats ans the ones who don’t? Are you able to distinguish between rude and polite gc people? We don’t interact with the trans people sending death threats on this sub, they don’t come here. When they do, they troll and get removed. But just because not all trans people are sending us death threats, that doesn’t mean we feel inclined to sacrifice our rights and spaces to the ones who don’t. You just said that on the old sub you saw many of us getting along and being courteous- so why are you even asking this question? You already saw the answer.

We don’t treat TW who don’t harass us the same ways we treat the ones who do. But- what you don’t realize is that the ones not sending us death threats are often still invading our spaces, policing our language, and doing all or most of the things that gc women are upset about- that’s still harassment. That’s still invasive. That’s still infringing on our rights. And they get treated as such by us. If I meet a TW who can leave women, our language, our spaces, our sports, etc alone- he’d have all of my respect and there’d be no resentment or rudeness towards him. You seem to think that sending threats and verbally harassing women who don’t agree with TW is the only way that they are upsetting or harassing women- it’s not. There are myriad ways that even the nicest, most self aware even gender critical transwomen are still offending and oppressing females.

Am i making sense?

ETA- not to speak for others, but I think the reason other users are saying your line of questioning is annoying is because you refuse to answer our questions or address our points. Maybe that’s not why you made this post, but it’s almost impossible to respond and have a clear dialogue if you don’t address what we are asking and saying, because those responses are how a conversation like this moves forward. We ask them so we can see where your thoughts are, in order to more effectively engage with you. When you skirt our questions and respond the way you do, it feels like you’re not remotely interested in discussing, rather that your intent is to just call gc rude and twist our responses to affirm that statement for yourself.

[–]LemurLemur[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Did you make a post about gc women being rude and then have the nerve comment asking if we (gc) distinguish between the trans people who send death threats ans the ones who don’t?

I made a post asking about gc/rudeness. And in follow up to a response that suggested "it doesn't matter if we're nice, they will send death threats anyway", I asked for clarification as to whether they distinguished which trans people did what. I am glad I did, too, as I appreciate the clarification it received.

But just because not all trans people are sending us death threats, that doesn’t mean we feel inclined to sacrifice our rights and spaces to the ones who don’t.

I never said you should.

Are you able to distinguish between rude and polite gc people?

Yes. You have been rude and insulted me. worried19 did neither, and was still able to communicate her answer well. I would say she was very polite, articulate and answered in good faith. It very much helped the discourse run smoothly.

You just said that on the old sub you saw many of us getting along and being courteous- so why are you even asking this question?

Because everyone seems to be getting meaner and I am curious if it's intentional or not.

If I meet a TW who can leave women, our language, our spaces, our sports, etc alone- he’d have all of my respect and there’d be no resentment or rudeness towards him.

I mean, you are even being overtly rude towards me, and I'm not even a TW, nor have I said women should have to give up any of those things.

You seem to think that sending threats and verbally harassing women who don’t agree with TW is the only way that they are upsetting or harassing women- it’s not. There are myriad ways that even the nicest, most self aware even gender critical transwomen are still offending and oppressing females.

That’s still invasive. That’s still infringing on our rights. And they get treated as such by us

Am i making sense?

Yes.

EDIT:

the reason other users are saying your line of questioning is annoying is because you refuse to answer our questions or address our points.

Also, you keep saying this, and I keep re-reading and I'm trying to answer everything in good faith. I'm sorry you're getting annoyed by this. What question did you want me to answer, that I might have missed? Though I don't think my opinions are really relevant when I'm trying to learn about you, I really do want to answer as best I can.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn’t accuse you of anything nor did I mistake you for a transwoman. You made a post, and commented on it, I replied to your comment. Clearly, other people understand where I’m coming from and you are the one who doesn’t get what I’m saying. That’s okay, and it’s okay if you don’t want any clarification. My point is- it’s not so simple as saying “gc women are called rude, are you okay with that”. If you only wanted yes/no responses, you should have said that. It sounds like you’re saying we aren’t answering your question because we are expanding on it. And I find that a bit odd. Also, you calling me rude and saying another gc user isn’t rude is exactly my point- we as a whole are being called rude when not all of us are. The other point many of us are making is that we are being called rude solely for viewing sex/gender differently, no matter how we phrase it. Even if we are open to sharing spaces and using preferred pronouns, if we don’t think TWAW- we are rude and hateful. We are being called rude for not sharing the ideology of tras and some trans people. That’s worth noting and discussing. If that wasn’t a discussion you wanted to have them I understand that, that doesn’t mean that we aren’t going to discuss it anyway though.

I also don’t think that people are getting meaner, I think we are just done with dancing around what we are trying to articulate, and are speaking more bluntly.