GC (but anyone can comment): Why are women more supportive of trans rights than men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from (self.GCdebatesQT)

https://www.prri.org/research/americas-growing-support-for-transgender-rights/

According to the study:

About half (51%) of men support requiring transgender individuals to use bathrooms corresponding to their assigned sex at birth, compared to four in ten (40%) women.

So women are more comfortable with people of the opposite birth sex using their bathrooms compared to men, by 11%. Why? This is an anonymous poll, so it's not like they feared being cancelled.

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[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (50 children)

Because women are socialised to be nice and transgender activism relies on framing itself as being nice and decent.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

So women don't have minds of their own and just do whatever they're socialized?

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (48 children)

Nobody said that. Can you respond to the actual point instead of turning it into an argument nobody is making.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

I am myself born female, and have been supportive of transgender people and the rest of the LGBTQ+ community since 14. I was 15 and finishing 9th grade when gay marriage was legalized in my state. I announced to my classmates the good news. I discovered gender critical feminism at 16. Back then I didn't know the words "gender critical" and "TERF" but I read a few feminist blogs that said men don't get abused and anti porn sites. I disagreed with these views and thus became anti-feminist for the next 4 years. Of course I realized there are more branches to feminism and am now a feminist myself, a social justice feminist. However I genuinely disagree with GC views and believe trans people are marginalizef. I do believe perhaps since women are organized and perhaps that's why they are more likely to support marginalized groups. Most women have critical thinking skills and even if they were socialized to be nice and decent, they still have critical thinking skills and if they didn't support the trans ideology they wouldn't. BabyCenter is a pregnancy and birth site and forum members are mainly biological females. They won't listen to GC views no matter what they are and they will instantly call you a TERF. And these women otherwise have good critical thinking skills.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

BabyCenter is a pregnancy and birth site and forum members are mainly biological females. They won't listen to GC views no matter what they are and they will instantly call you a TERF. And these women otherwise have good critical thinking skills.

So... LoveSloane is an account that can’t be traced. Anywhere I use this username, I have taken steps to prevent myself from being doxed since it lead to threats before. I am sure that there are some genuine libfems in the Forums you frequent, but I know for fact that a lot of women say what they are “supposed” to say online, myself included in traceable social media forums, to prevent backlash. I don’t think that it’s at all accurate to claim that what you read in forums that aren’t specifically gc is how everyone truly feels. I just today had to force myself not to contradict a TW’s misogynistic claims on a group that I created, because calling them out would cause me harm. I’m working my way up to be openly GC, but I’m pretty easily found and don’t want to put my family at risk or myself. I also work in an industry where we pretend and say the right things and secretly almost unanimously agree that TWAMM and TMAW

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

BabyCenter is an anonymous site. Unless you're using your real life name as your username, using the same username you use on other sites or upload a photo, you're anonymous. Even if these women genuinely disagreed with the trans idology, they can always not reply to threads that have GC content.

However, even in an anonymous poll women are more likely to be genuine libfems than men.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

I think people are also likely to not be well informed on what tras are truly advocating for. I was a staunch libfem until I dug deeper. I highly doubt that a majority of women would remain libfems if they really saw what I’ve seen. Even debating here has made me more and more gc. Most libfems only know what tras want them to know. And a lot of what tras want people to know is just bullshit. It’s a cult like atmosphere, and one that more and more women are pulling away from because things are being taken too far. So, I’ll just wait it out. The trans movement is bound to collapse on itself because it causes to much damage to other marginalized people.

also-it being anonymous doesn’t prevent someone from being kicked out of the forum... I mean, reddit can also be anonymous.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

My libfem friends who became GC all were thinking that when speaking about transwomen, it was about HSTS who are somewhat passing and who are already after surgery. One of them was shocked, when I show her my page in social media, before I've deleted it. As there were transbians attacking me for not wanting penises, and few of them sending photos of their penises under dresses, she was shocked that they were fully functional erected penises and that I had such messages from people to me. She said she thought that "suck my girldick" is just a phrasing, mocking their "male origin", and not a reality. She was surprised that LGBTQ+ is so much against L. And she was not able to accept that for some time, as it just made no sense. For me it makes no sense either, but it is sad reality.

So yeah, the deeper they dig - the more they are becoming GC.

Myself I never was libfem, thought, as I lived throught hell and back, with HR denying me job because "you are female applying to men's job", and many other issues (especially when I was homeless) and things I lived through (like burned scar on my neck, or around 30-40 scars through out my body). I saw life from the other side, so sweet pill of libfems was always disgusting to me. As they did nothing to me, even more - actively were trying to made my life much worse.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Myself I never was libfem, thought, as I lived throught hell and back, with HR denying me job because "you are female applying to men's job", and many other issues (especially when I was homeless) and things I lived through (like burned scar on my neck, or around 30-40 scars through out my body).

Trans people experience job discrimination too. Read this post.

I lost my job for being trans and was jobless for months and ultimately homeless as a direct result of me being trans.

My family disowned me. As did the vast majority of my friends.

I have been physically attacked (for using a men’s room no less) and knew that I couldn’t call the police because I would be arrested on pretense if I did.

I live in constant fear of being attacked for being trans. I am regularly verbally accosted for just existing in public.

It is potentially legal to deny even emergency medical care to use because you don’t like trans people In light of trump’s executive order on the subject. We have no housing discrimination protections.

We exist in a state of having less legal protections than any other minority group I am aware of. Lgb is close but there are a few states that have protections for lgb people but not for us.

Though we should work to end all forms of discrimination.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Read this

I actually not sure about this person, they look like someone who will be fired regardless of gender to me. I am still sad for that person, especially that USA laws are so shitty towards workers and aimed to help corporations instead.

Though we should work to end all forms of discrimination.

That should be done without discriminating women and homosexual people in the process like it is done right now.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

I think most people are well informed on what they're advocating for. For instance on BabyCenter, they won't even HEAR GC arguments. They'll just call you a TERF and that's it. Also, for me debating here and reading GC sites like Ovarit makes me more supportive of the trans community. I disagree with many GC views, like not letting trans women into women's bathrooms/locker rooms.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Enjoy your kool-aid, then, I guess. There’s so much incel speak, misogyny, racism, rape apologia, and homophobia rampant amongst TRAs and QT. If you can see that and applaud it, then I don’t know what to tell you. Every single tra or ally I know is grossly misinformed. They only see evidence presented in a skewed towards tra agenda manner. If you’ve looked past what tras want you to see and can still support such abusive, harmful, and regressive stances than that’s on you and a few years from now I hope you aren’t ashamed or embarrassed.

What I do know is- they shift the goal posts so frequently that I’m sure inevitably you’ll do, think, or say something that will make them decide that even you are “transphobic”. Hopefully when that happens you’ll open your eyes.

Eta- of course they won’t hear the gc arguments- they’ve been trained to tune it out because the arguments make sense and tras don’t want people to see that. That’s why the cancel culture and silencing is so prevalent. You yourself have never successfully debated on their behalf imo. You retreat and don’t have answers just like them but this is the side you fight for. Makes no sense to me but do you. They trained you well, I guess. They had me trained and I look back on the things I thought and said and feel so stupid and used. They are spreading toxicity. And you are helping them.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

There’s so much incel speak, misogyny, racism, rape apologia, and homophobia rampant amongst TRAs and QT.

And there is so much racism, sexism, homophobia and incel speak amongst GC.

  1. Take a look at this thread The idiots at GenCyn finally discover Ovarit. GC brought up that a GenCyn user is an Iranian trans man. One user wrote:

She gets so much attention from gencyn cuz she's the one WoC they actually have in their midst of privileged, white males.

The idea that trans people of color exist is news to GC. I've read GenCyn for many years and participated there sometimes. Not everyone there is a white male. But GC thinks everyone there is a white male. With that being said, being of a certain race doesn't mean you are required to have a certain opinion. You can be black, Hispanic, or whatever and GC, and QT as well. You can be a Mexican Trump supporter for all I care.

  1. I think both GC and QT enforce sexist stereotypes. QT enforces sex stereotypes to some extent in their definition of gender and somewhat of the idea that changing your gender identity means changing your clothes and outer appearance (i.e. dying hair). GC enforces stereotypes based on biological sex. I will talk about GC for now. They always talk about how people born female are so much nicer than people born male. While I do think socialization plays a part in how we act more than we think, not everything is the result of female socialization. On the other thread you said if you confided something to someone you thought was female but it turned out they weren't you wouldn't speak to them. Why? Why upon finding out someone's birth sex you view a person differently. That's sexist.

  2. GC is homophobic. They call trans gay men attracted to other men fujoshis. They were also upset when a trans man won a gay pageant in the UK. Some gays and lesbians are attracted to trans people of their gender, some people aren't. They are still gay and lesbian. People can’t control who they're attracted to and you can refuse a relationship and sex with someone for any reason.

  3. On the old GC sub there was a thread about women identifying as asexual. The thread read like an incel thread.

Eta- of course they won’t hear the gc arguments- they’ve been trained to tune it out because the arguments make sense and tras don’t want people to see that.

I think most likely they're genuine libfems though.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

well informed

won’t even hear opposing ideas

Lmao.

[–]pinkpaperplates 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

think most people are well informed on what they're advocating for.

I’m very late in replying to this but a quick look at the far-right or Trump supporters in the U.S. easily shows that this statement is not true.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

and the rest of the LGBTQ+

But TQ+ is heavily against LGB nowadays. Especially lesbian spaces are either banned or erased, attack on lesbians is huge. They are attacking us with literally the same words that christians attackd us, word to word. Being born in heavily homophobic country with outlawed homosexuality that rhetorics is literally the same. I am really sick that we always need to fight for ourselves against homophobes who are supported by masses. But I just wish we would be just allowed to live and we will not be outlawed (or banned from all spaces) or an instrument of validation.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

How is QT against LGB (and saying "trans lesbians are lesbians" is not against LGB)?

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Homosexuality is innate, it is not some "preference", and we can not "unlearn love for pussy and accept penises". You know how many straight men said to me exactly the words that transwomen are saying to me nowadays? Sexuality does not work for genders it is about sex. For me, having synesthesia for smells, I can tell who is trans by just sniffing them, I do not need to see them, and my organism just does not work for it. I was born in homophobic society, where everything about homosexuality was banned, I always had crashes on women, but did not know that women can be together, later I was married on a man, as everyone was saying that it is impossible to be with women or to love women, however nothing was working, sexologist said I am frigid - I still really, really tried to get aroused, we tried everything and I was really wanting to become heterosexual or bisexual and love men, but nothing worked, I thought I am asexual. Gladly after divorce I met bisexual woman who was in USA and "frigidness" vanished like first snow under rain. Later students in my university saw I am kissing with woman, and beated the shit out of me after lessons, principle saw that but said nothing, she only stopped them from raping me, later I was fired from job when boss learned I am lesbian from somewhere, and all the time I had men around me trying to get into my panties, all were saying that "your husband was just bad in bed" or "bad person", a lot of men were saying "I love women and effeminate, so I am lesbian-man" (our language is gendered, so they were using masculine version of word lesbian), they were saying that "you just need to find good dick" or "my dick is special", sending me dickpics in social media. And you know what? Transwomen/transbians are almost all pre-op, and they are acting exactly the same, saying exactly same phrases, even sending me dickpics (I deleted my social media because of few stalkers from them), now just "I am effeminate and my dick is effeminate, so I am lesbian", "you just never tried transbian dick", "my dick is girldick, so it is special" and so on. They do not understand the homosexuality at all, all this is extremely homophobic, like really really strongly. Queer men and women are pushing from other side - most of them are straight, but still calling themselves lesbians and pushing around in social medial or news their view of lesbianism that has nothing to do with real lesbianism and more porn inducted or some weird stuff not connected to sexuality or sexual attraction. And the whole idea that gender-non-conforming women and lesbians must be a man is both homophobic and sexist. So many transmen are just young lesbians who are running away from this garbage and finding that it is the only way for them together in today's society. I can rant forewer, days and days. It is just same old sexism, with exactly same words, with exactly same victimisation and gaslighting, nothing has changed.

And if you interested - yes, I tried with post-op transwomen. And no, my body did not responded still, even tho neo-vagina visually looked very close to real one. However, everything in that person was not female, and that person did not know female body, feelings and zones as well, and female experience was lacking either, and even scent was absolutely different (and that person was on hormones for 20 years, since teen years), and neo-vagina was not able to self-lubricate as well, just everything was wrong and my body was not arousing, even thought I really tried.

And refusing someone sex - is not same as hating them. Not wanting to date someone or some group of people - is not same as hating them. When we are saying "no", this means no.

Homosexuality is not a choice, it can not be unlearned. If it was a choice - gays in Iran or Saudi Arabia would be just unlearning it and not being executed. If it was able to unlearn and learn new sexuality - I'd be still married and living happy life (my ex-husband was really good person, I am still friends with him, he may be one of the best men I know), but it can't be unlearned. It is just facts. Saying otherwise is homphobia, pushing dicks on lesbians - is homophobia. Sexual orientation is not someone's else validation. Saying "unlearn genital preferences" - is conversion therapy.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well said. Every human being should read your post. I wish I could vote for it 1000 times.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Saying that males can be lesbians is actually against the L in LGB. Since... lesbian is a term for a female exclusively sexually attracted to other females.

Pushing lesbians to sleep with transwomen who are pre op (but also honestly, post op as well) is inherently anti lesbian, since... lesbian is a term for females exclusively sexually attracted to other females (and even post op TW aren’t females)

The idea that someone who is same sex attracted is a transphobe for not including a member of the opposite sex just because they are trans in their dating pool is inherently anti-homosexuality, since... at best a trans person can maybe have genitalia intended to resemble the opposite sex’s genitalia but will never actually have it and they still haven’t changed sex. So forcing this idea that gay men or lesbian women have to open themselves up to sleeping with someone of the opposite sex is pretty much conversion therapy borrowed from back in the day “Christians”.

Saying that bisexual no longer means attracted to both sexes is inherently anti bisexual, so is the implication that I’ve seen so often that a bisexual person should be open to sleeping with any trans person, pre or post op. Maybe it’s not biphobic but it’s incel speak at it’s finest

The fact that some TW can’t accept that being in a relationship with another male (or TM with another female) means they are literally in a homosexual relationship is pretty anti homosexuality. It places value on a heterosexual relationship when there’s nothing wrong with homosexual relationships and they shouldn’t care that technically, definitively, they would be in one.

The idea that’s being spread now, that a gay woman or man should “reevaluate their (genital) preference(s)” to include trans people of the opposite sex is basically saying that sexuality is a choice, it’s a preference that can and should be unlearned. It contradicts the point we make about being born lgb, not choosing to be. It’s also coercive as fuck which is not anti lgb but is a huge problem.

Eta- obligatory not all trans people do this even tho the ones that don’t don’t do shit to stop this from being said and forced on people

[–]catoborosnonbinary 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I am in almost total agreement with you, but I also recognise that language is descriptive and not prescriptive, and some trans women use the term lesbian to describe themselves. Some people are attracted to the feminine sex characteristics that some trans women have, and some of those people are women. This is not my experience, and for many including myself, sexual attraction is a primitive instinct tied closely to immutable biological sex. But this is not everyone's experience. It seems strange to call a trans woman attracted to women straight. I am cool with trans women describing themselves as lesbians, but trans women have precisely zero right to demand that cis lesbians find them attractive. Trancel talk of "genital preferences" is homophobia.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you. I respect your opinion. My only thing is- language is descriptive, but trans people seem to want to ignore the fact that there are descriptors that don’t need to be warped for them. Lesbian describes a female attracted to other females. It has nothing to do with males. What is wrong with being bisexual? Why can’t a woman who typically dates females but who is open to sleeping with transwomen refer to herself as bisexual, even if she adds the caveat of only being attracted to transwomen and women? A trans woman attracted to women is still a straight male. Why can’t they be acknowledged?

I get why they want to use these words- I actually used to not even care that they use them, tho I thought they were using them incorrectly. My issue is forcing it. TW are being welcomed into female spaces and then dictating language usage. That’s not okay. You can consider yourself a lesbian if you’re a TW attracted to women, I can’t stop how you see yourself- you have no right to force me to accept that you’re a lesbian and certainly no right to pressure me to include you in my sexuality (I’m not a lesbian, I’m bi. I’m just saying...). The only way lesbian fits a transwoman is if you think TWAW. I don’t think that, so I don’t see how it applies to them, ever. I used to be okay with TW calling themselves women or even lesbians, but now it seems like anything you accept from them leads to more taking and more erasure so now it’s like I want to protect women and girls too much to ever be comfortable with TW calling themselves women and lesbians. It’s just one more thing to take. It’s just one more area to infiltrate and take over and warp to suit them.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The only way lesbian fits a transwoman is if you think TWAW.

Even then it holds not true, because lesbian is female homosexual, not woman gender sexual. So you need to abandon science and believe that penis is a part of female biology and that female studies should no longer be only about female body, but about male body as well. And that makes everything even worse, as female body is heavily understudied in compare with male body.

Homosexual person is attracted to sex, not to gender. Saying otherwise is homophobia and one of things homosexual people were fighting against. And now when not conservatives are saying same thing - it is now okay suddenly? Why when not conservatives are saying homophobic, racist and/or misogynic thing and enforcing them same way as coservatives before - is okay? It is not okay.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do not think anyone should be able to force someone else to conform to their language or worldview.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And the actual point I made about female socialisation enforcing niceness and the tea movement framing itself as niceness, you have any response to that?

Or just another retelling of how you think feminism is for whales and men and LEGO bricks. You’ve told me you’re a feminist for anything other than women many times before.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I actually have a question for you, OP.

I’m sure by now we’ve all seen multiple posts on multiple platforms where someone admonishes straight men and lesbian women for not considering TW as sex partners. Why, in your opinion OP, is it that lesbians are seen asking for help in overcoming their “genital fetish” or “cisnormative bias” or “unacknowledged transphobia”, sometimes even having traumatizing sexual encounters for no reason other than feeling guilted or pressured into sleeping with a TW (there were two posters on the reddit sub who went through this, and I have a friend who went through this too, as well as having seen a few reddit posts about this- so this isn’t hypothetical)- but men just say “nah” and aren’t pushed or guilted or shamed?

Why do you think JKR is being sent death and rape threats and being endlessly harassed, but not The actor who plays Hagrid?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I’m sure by now we’ve all seen multiple posts on multiple platforms where someone admonishes straight men and lesbian women for not considering TW as sex partners. Why, in your opinion OP, is it that lesbians are seen asking for help in overcoming their “genital fetish” or “cisnormative bias” or “unacknowledged transphobia”, sometimes even having traumatizing sexual encounters for no reason other than feeling guilted or pressured into sleeping with a TW (there were two posters on the reddit sub who went through this, and I have a friend who went through this too, as well as having seen a few reddit posts about this- so this isn’t hypothetical)- but men just say “nah” and aren’t pushed or guilted or shamed?

People can have sex and decline sex with whomever they want.

Why do you think JKR is being sent death and rape threats and being endlessly harassed, but not The actor who plays Hagrid?

JKR is more well known. I didn't even know who played Rubeus Hagrid until I googled it just now. There were 2 actors, Martin Bayfield and Robbie Coltrane. Coltrane defended JKR's comments about trans people. I had no knowledge of this. Though if a man as well known as JKR said the same thing, he would absolutely get the same treatment.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

  1. Not my question. I know people can choose who they sleep with. I asked you why you think it is that females are the ones giving in or guilt tripping themselves over not being open to sleeping with them? Also- why are so many tras pushing for people to include people in their sexuality that their sexuality naturally doesn’t include?

  2. Lol. You’re really saying that jkr is getting death and rape threats because she’s well known???? Wow. Fucking wow. I’m not well known- why have I gotten death and rape threats? Why are memes about killing and raping “t*rfs” so common? We aren’t all well known.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Not my question. I know people can choose who they sleep with. I asked you why you think it is that females are the ones giving in or guilt tripping themselves over not being open to sleeping with them? Also- why are so many tras pushing for people to include people in their sexuality that their sexuality naturally doesn’t include?

I don't know why females are guilt tripping themselves. Also, most TRAs encourage people to examine themselves and perhaps broaden their preferences. But most TRAs think people have the right to exclude trans people from their dating pool if they want.

ol. You’re really saying that jkr is getting death and rape threats because she’s well known???? Wow. Fucking wow. I’m not well known- why have I gotten death and rape threats? Why are memes about killing and raping “t*rfs” so common? We aren’t all well known.

That's not what I said. JKR is getting threats for her transphobic comments - which I don't agree with. I assumed you were asking why do women get threats and not men for making transphobic comments. I pointed pointed out that men will get the same treatment if they make these comments. Yes, GC men get anti-TERF comments as well. It's why r/GenderCriticalGuys was banned along with r/GenderCritical.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

  1. False. I see every day tras saying that not wanting to sleep with transwomen or transmen is bigotry. I see people everyday try to push “girl dick” onto lesbians and straight men. It’s everywhere. It’s just weird to me that you’d deny it when on average I see at least three posts or articles about things daily. Mass conversion therapy is being attempted and it doesn’t matter that not all trans people are pushing it because the ones who disagree aren’t speaking out nearly as much as those pushing it.

  2. Men do make these comments. They aren’t getting death or rape threats. They may get antiterf comments- their safety is not being threatened and they aren’t being pushed the ways they women are to accept the dogma or else. That’s the whole point. Females are threatened, males may be admonished. Again- this is easily seen. All the feminists subs on reddit are gone- the male subs that have a decidedly anti tmam/twaw stance are all still up unless they were specifically gc. Again, all of this is easily seen. If you’re not as well informed as you think you are that’s fine, but you’re absolutely wrong on both of these claims.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

All the feminists subs on reddit are gone

Not just that. All lesbian subs were banned except porn-collector /r/Lesbians and validation of transbians and discussions of dicks /r/ActualLesbians (and few closed ones I will not name). While actively anti-trans gay men subs are still up, event hought they are under siege, but no one is banning them, even when they are much more anti-trans than /r/TrueLesbians, which were only "anti-penises", not even anti-trans. And even /r/AskGayBros is still up, even when they are all time dismissing transmen saying they are not men and not gays, and that they love dicks and not pussies, almost daily.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I've looked through numerous gay subs through google, including r/gaymen, r/askgaybros, r/broslikeus, r/mangonewild, and have yet to find transphobic content. One gay man even said fuck TERFS. Another said Because not enough trans men are on this sub! we need to show love to ALL male bodies ❤️.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry, this post was deleted

Lol.

I was mostly speaking about comments.

Or topics like this: https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/ih9dk8/not_being_attracted_to_transmen_doesnt_make_you/

https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/ii01jm/_/g35gsvn&context=3

Or even those, which are not deleted: https://www.reddit.com/r/askgaybros/comments/iicfio/my_sexuality_isnt_a_genital_preference/

For similar ones True Lesbians were attacked, brigaded and downvoted to hell. And then banned completely. And here everything is fine.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In the thread "My sexuality isn't a GENITAL PREFERENCE.", a user called out OP's transphobia. Another thing is while some of the commenters are transphobic and yes transphobic comments need to be removed, these subs overall are not intended to be transphobic. If these subs were overall transphobic, yes they would be deleted.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

  1. Most trans people aren't like this.

  2. Yes men get rape and death threats for the same thing.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

  1. The ones who aren’t like this are doing nothing to speak up against the ones who are like this.

  2. Show me men getting death and rape threats for saying TWAM please

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Source?

[–]worried19 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Female socialization. Most women are taught to be "nice" above all else. They're taught it's their job to be inclusive of others, even if they have misgivings. This is reinforced by parents, teachers, and the mass media. Think about all those romantic comedies where women's boundaries are steamrolled over by the hero, but it's because "she really wants it" even if she says she doesn't. Girls are raised on a steady diet of such messages.

I think it's more notable that even in the face of female socialization, 40% are still comfortable enough with their own boundaries to assert them, at least anonymously.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Much of human society is built on the "niceness" of women and their "willingness" to work for little or no pay.

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

True. I've never understood why women stand for it. I guess early socialization really does a number on most of them.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Because of the repercussions..

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

It's just hard for me to understand on a personal level. I don't tolerate anyone crossing my boundaries.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Then you’re one of very few who could tolerate ostracism and being black listed or described as a bigot by friends family and colleagues.
Or haven’t been emotionally abused into a relationship like that. Or haven’t been in a relationship where your partner transitions some ten years in.

The women are the victims here. Not just weak willed or something.

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I wasn't talking about trans issues in particular. I was talking about women being socialized to be "nice" and let people step over their boundaries in all areas of life.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Which is kind of worse to be blasé about. Basically all women are socialised to be nice over being assertive and you’re phrasing it like it’s a choice.

Do you not know about women who are physically hurt if they don’t perform the role they’re given? Do you not realise that some women stand to lose hugely if they don’t perform the nice role? Do you believe all women can and should be prepared to be labelled as terrible mothers, have their custody of kids threatened, or lose a career, or have no friends, or lose everything because they’re a SAHM?

Idk how you couldn’t know about situations like that.

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Of course I'm not blaming them. I just can't relate at all. I've never performed that role or felt forced to perform it. I don't recall anyone ever trying to get me to perform it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. Obviously it does. I believe female socialization negatively affects the vast majority of women. I just have a deep aversion to people trying to step over my personal boundaries. Even if they tried, they would not succeed.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Then you’re the one outlier who didn’t experience female socialisation despite being female.

[–]DistantGlimmer 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's because most women (and many men as well) accept the narrative that "they just want to pee" and don't interact with TRAs online the way GC people do. Most people in general aren't going to take an extremely depressing and socially isolating position on an issue like this unless they have researched it heavily it is far easier in the current environment to just not ask too many questions especially if you are on the left of the political spectrum where being openly GC will get you ostracised. We have Biden saying this is the greatest human rights issue of our time and all kinds of medical professionals in the tank for the trans lobby for whatever reason. It's not that women are just ignorant or deliberately acting against their own interests for some reason but I think it is just an exmple of collective gaslighting.

When and if we come through this the way the TRAs operate is going to be a huge case study of incredibly effective propaganda. Basically, only a small number of people have to genuinely believe something in order to exert intense psychological pressure on a much larger group of people to go along with it.

[–]grixitperson 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

"trans rights" mean not being discriminated against in housing and employment, and so forth. letting them into the other bathroom is not a trans right, therefor it is wrong to say that people are more or less supportive based on this issue.

Do better!

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I meant the right to use the other bathroom. Women are 11% more supportive of that right than men.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You mean their privilege to use the other bathroom.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It isn’t a right.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Because TRA’s were smart enough to capitalize on female socialization, hive mentality, and now the fear of being canceled/seen as not “woke” or on the wrong side of history.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It is much easier for woman to lose her job for liking JKRowling tweet than to man who is openly transphobic.

It is even seen on reddit or facebook. TrueLesbians subreddit was banned for them not accepting penises, while AskGayBros is still up, while having openly anti-trans position.

So even if women are against - they are just removed from an equasion or called TERF and ignored.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m commenting a lot, my bad. But I also wonder if trans people get a lot of support just from being attached to the LG and B. When I was an ally i never actively “became” an ally, I just realized I always was because they were a part of my community. So if I had to speak up for these people who were “abused and suicidal and just wanting to be respected and treated like everyone else” I was already inclined to do so- but them being a part of my own community- of course I’m speaking up for them. All they had to do was tell me how. That’s what they do. They give out the information they want you to have and suppress info they don’t want out. Silence the people who know what’s up and speak up against what they’re doing. Look at how many told us “don’t read JKR’s letter, read my analysis of it”, look at what they did to Isabel Fall.

Idk how old you are but you’re not trans- you’ll start to see eventually. Whether you look further and see things from a GC side or you ignore it to be “woke” idk but inevitably you’ll see cracks.

Tldr- I think it’s also related to misinformation and suppression of accurate information. Men see and hear the same stuff women do. It has to be how we are conditioned to receive and interpret it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

After all this I didn’t even read your text, just the title.

Why are you okay with dismissing 40%? That means 4 out 10 women, 2/5, would be uncomfortable, right? Why is that it okay? Also- this is about actual rights that even GC people support, aside from the bathroom. This is talking about being comfortable around them, if we think they’re stigmatized, not supporting all of the gender talk and ideology. Like, even I support this and would’ve voted in favor of trans people on almost all areas of this poll. Note, it says that over 50% of people believe there’s only two genders, and that gender is a binary. So what exactly was it that we were supposed to take from this?

Eta- This is kind of what I was saying in our other thread- you seem to be deeply misinterpreting things. This link kind of supports what gc is saying, that you can understand they are marginalized and deserve safety and rights, and still not agree with their ideology or think TWAW/TMAM

[–]FlanJam 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel like women are generally more sympathetic towards marginalized groups, probably because we're no stranger to being marginalized.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it is for the very same reason, why overwhelming majority of people working in charity and in organizations who are helping marginalized or disabled groups of people - are women. I am not sure I can understand this reason (maybe maternal instinct, maybe socialization, maybe something else, I don't know, and no studies were done on this), but it must be the same reason.

[–]thatradicallesbian 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Women aren't actually necessarily more comfortable with unisex spaces. Female socialization conditions girls & women to be accommodating and put other people's feelings above our own

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In addition: https://womansplaceuk.org/gender-neutral-toilets-dont-work-for-women-2/

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I and my female friends are comfortable in unisex spaces.

[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You and every one of your female friends are perfectly comfortable stripping naked in front of strange men?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If were comfortable stripping naked in front of strange women, were comfortable stripping naked in front of strange men.

[–]worried19 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's very unusual. You've polled every single one of your friends, and they're all okay with it? I find it hard to believe, to be honest.

I personally am fine stripping naked in front of anyone, no matter their sex, but I appear to be unusual on that score.

[–]ISaidWhatISaid 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Because men are far more likely to have actually seen t-porn online than women. Men know what's up, or rather, what's really down there.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Cis men lack empathy.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I disagree. Cis men lack the experience of living in a female body, but I know many kind and empathic cis men.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I’m speaking as a class, and frankly I doubt it. The list of cis men I trust is countable on less than one hand and they are all at least bi.

[–]comradeconradical 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

lol we know you hate males, like more than any feminist I've interacted with. It's pretty intense.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cis men have given me no reason to trust them not to be monsters, so I don’t.

[–]DogeWalker 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

women are also the majority of those who are questioning extreme trans activism, wouldn't you agree? I think that's an interesting corollary.