GC (but anyone can comment): Why are women more supportive of trans rights than men?

submitted by GenderbenderShe/her/hers from (self.GCdebatesQT)

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (48 children)

Nobody said that. Can you respond to the actual point instead of turning it into an argument nobody is making.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

I am myself born female, and have been supportive of transgender people and the rest of the LGBTQ+ community since 14. I was 15 and finishing 9th grade when gay marriage was legalized in my state. I announced to my classmates the good news. I discovered gender critical feminism at 16. Back then I didn't know the words "gender critical" and "TERF" but I read a few feminist blogs that said men don't get abused and anti porn sites. I disagreed with these views and thus became anti-feminist for the next 4 years. Of course I realized there are more branches to feminism and am now a feminist myself, a social justice feminist. However I genuinely disagree with GC views and believe trans people are marginalizef. I do believe perhaps since women are organized and perhaps that's why they are more likely to support marginalized groups. Most women have critical thinking skills and even if they were socialized to be nice and decent, they still have critical thinking skills and if they didn't support the trans ideology they wouldn't. BabyCenter is a pregnancy and birth site and forum members are mainly biological females. They won't listen to GC views no matter what they are and they will instantly call you a TERF. And these women otherwise have good critical thinking skills.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (34 children)

BabyCenter is a pregnancy and birth site and forum members are mainly biological females. They won't listen to GC views no matter what they are and they will instantly call you a TERF. And these women otherwise have good critical thinking skills.

So... LoveSloane is an account that can’t be traced. Anywhere I use this username, I have taken steps to prevent myself from being doxed since it lead to threats before. I am sure that there are some genuine libfems in the Forums you frequent, but I know for fact that a lot of women say what they are “supposed” to say online, myself included in traceable social media forums, to prevent backlash. I don’t think that it’s at all accurate to claim that what you read in forums that aren’t specifically gc is how everyone truly feels. I just today had to force myself not to contradict a TW’s misogynistic claims on a group that I created, because calling them out would cause me harm. I’m working my way up to be openly GC, but I’m pretty easily found and don’t want to put my family at risk or myself. I also work in an industry where we pretend and say the right things and secretly almost unanimously agree that TWAMM and TMAW

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

BabyCenter is an anonymous site. Unless you're using your real life name as your username, using the same username you use on other sites or upload a photo, you're anonymous. Even if these women genuinely disagreed with the trans idology, they can always not reply to threads that have GC content.

However, even in an anonymous poll women are more likely to be genuine libfems than men.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

I think people are also likely to not be well informed on what tras are truly advocating for. I was a staunch libfem until I dug deeper. I highly doubt that a majority of women would remain libfems if they really saw what I’ve seen. Even debating here has made me more and more gc. Most libfems only know what tras want them to know. And a lot of what tras want people to know is just bullshit. It’s a cult like atmosphere, and one that more and more women are pulling away from because things are being taken too far. So, I’ll just wait it out. The trans movement is bound to collapse on itself because it causes to much damage to other marginalized people.

also-it being anonymous doesn’t prevent someone from being kicked out of the forum... I mean, reddit can also be anonymous.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

My libfem friends who became GC all were thinking that when speaking about transwomen, it was about HSTS who are somewhat passing and who are already after surgery. One of them was shocked, when I show her my page in social media, before I've deleted it. As there were transbians attacking me for not wanting penises, and few of them sending photos of their penises under dresses, she was shocked that they were fully functional erected penises and that I had such messages from people to me. She said she thought that "suck my girldick" is just a phrasing, mocking their "male origin", and not a reality. She was surprised that LGBTQ+ is so much against L. And she was not able to accept that for some time, as it just made no sense. For me it makes no sense either, but it is sad reality.

So yeah, the deeper they dig - the more they are becoming GC.

Myself I never was libfem, thought, as I lived throught hell and back, with HR denying me job because "you are female applying to men's job", and many other issues (especially when I was homeless) and things I lived through (like burned scar on my neck, or around 30-40 scars through out my body). I saw life from the other side, so sweet pill of libfems was always disgusting to me. As they did nothing to me, even more - actively were trying to made my life much worse.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Myself I never was libfem, thought, as I lived throught hell and back, with HR denying me job because "you are female applying to men's job", and many other issues (especially when I was homeless) and things I lived through (like burned scar on my neck, or around 30-40 scars through out my body).

Trans people experience job discrimination too. Read this post.

I lost my job for being trans and was jobless for months and ultimately homeless as a direct result of me being trans.

My family disowned me. As did the vast majority of my friends.

I have been physically attacked (for using a men’s room no less) and knew that I couldn’t call the police because I would be arrested on pretense if I did.

I live in constant fear of being attacked for being trans. I am regularly verbally accosted for just existing in public.

It is potentially legal to deny even emergency medical care to use because you don’t like trans people In light of trump’s executive order on the subject. We have no housing discrimination protections.

We exist in a state of having less legal protections than any other minority group I am aware of. Lgb is close but there are a few states that have protections for lgb people but not for us.

Though we should work to end all forms of discrimination.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Read this

I actually not sure about this person, they look like someone who will be fired regardless of gender to me. I am still sad for that person, especially that USA laws are so shitty towards workers and aimed to help corporations instead.

Though we should work to end all forms of discrimination.

That should be done without discriminating women and homosexual people in the process like it is done right now.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Your insults aside, my reviews before coming out had all been neutral or positive in the 2 years I had been with the company. Once I announced I intended to come out I was issued my first negative review 2 days after and told directly by my supervisor that I should be job hunting because she had been told to begin the process of justifying firing me by their policies because of my transition.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

I think most people are well informed on what they're advocating for. For instance on BabyCenter, they won't even HEAR GC arguments. They'll just call you a TERF and that's it. Also, for me debating here and reading GC sites like Ovarit makes me more supportive of the trans community. I disagree with many GC views, like not letting trans women into women's bathrooms/locker rooms.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (24 children)

Enjoy your kool-aid, then, I guess. There’s so much incel speak, misogyny, racism, rape apologia, and homophobia rampant amongst TRAs and QT. If you can see that and applaud it, then I don’t know what to tell you. Every single tra or ally I know is grossly misinformed. They only see evidence presented in a skewed towards tra agenda manner. If you’ve looked past what tras want you to see and can still support such abusive, harmful, and regressive stances than that’s on you and a few years from now I hope you aren’t ashamed or embarrassed.

What I do know is- they shift the goal posts so frequently that I’m sure inevitably you’ll do, think, or say something that will make them decide that even you are “transphobic”. Hopefully when that happens you’ll open your eyes.

Eta- of course they won’t hear the gc arguments- they’ve been trained to tune it out because the arguments make sense and tras don’t want people to see that. That’s why the cancel culture and silencing is so prevalent. You yourself have never successfully debated on their behalf imo. You retreat and don’t have answers just like them but this is the side you fight for. Makes no sense to me but do you. They trained you well, I guess. They had me trained and I look back on the things I thought and said and feel so stupid and used. They are spreading toxicity. And you are helping them.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

There’s so much incel speak, misogyny, racism, rape apologia, and homophobia rampant amongst TRAs and QT.

And there is so much racism, sexism, homophobia and incel speak amongst GC.

  1. Take a look at this thread The idiots at GenCyn finally discover Ovarit. GC brought up that a GenCyn user is an Iranian trans man. One user wrote:

She gets so much attention from gencyn cuz she's the one WoC they actually have in their midst of privileged, white males.

The idea that trans people of color exist is news to GC. I've read GenCyn for many years and participated there sometimes. Not everyone there is a white male. But GC thinks everyone there is a white male. With that being said, being of a certain race doesn't mean you are required to have a certain opinion. You can be black, Hispanic, or whatever and GC, and QT as well. You can be a Mexican Trump supporter for all I care.

  1. I think both GC and QT enforce sexist stereotypes. QT enforces sex stereotypes to some extent in their definition of gender and somewhat of the idea that changing your gender identity means changing your clothes and outer appearance (i.e. dying hair). GC enforces stereotypes based on biological sex. I will talk about GC for now. They always talk about how people born female are so much nicer than people born male. While I do think socialization plays a part in how we act more than we think, not everything is the result of female socialization. On the other thread you said if you confided something to someone you thought was female but it turned out they weren't you wouldn't speak to them. Why? Why upon finding out someone's birth sex you view a person differently. That's sexist.

  2. GC is homophobic. They call trans gay men attracted to other men fujoshis. They were also upset when a trans man won a gay pageant in the UK. Some gays and lesbians are attracted to trans people of their gender, some people aren't. They are still gay and lesbian. People can’t control who they're attracted to and you can refuse a relationship and sex with someone for any reason.

  3. On the old GC sub there was a thread about women identifying as asexual. The thread read like an incel thread.

Eta- of course they won’t hear the gc arguments- they’ve been trained to tune it out because the arguments make sense and tras don’t want people to see that.

I think most likely they're genuine libfems though.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

  1. Have not seen any racism, homophobia, or incel speak from GC. Please, elaborate? Please explain how someone pointing out that white people are capitalizing on poc is racist, not the white people who are using a poc as a poster child???

  2. GC’s whole point is that gender is a construct that we want dismantled. Please explain how saying men and women should be able to dress and present however they want is sexist? Examples?

  3. No GC person I know pretends women=nice and men= evil.if anything, the only person here saying men are beasts and evil is qt... Are there man hating feminists? I’m sure. Do men hating feminist equal gc? No. Someone can be gc and also hate men, GC as man haters is not a gc stance. Also- have you just missed all of the gc men? You’re once again, ill informed.

  4. I also explained that I’d feel more comfortable discussing certain things with a female. Because imo a female will understand and relate better to some things. If you don’t know specifically what I would take to a female that I wouldn’t to a male- you don’t get to judge. I would absolutely feel uncomfortable discussing my body and it’s functions with someone who wouldnt relate to and understand what I said. I also said there are some things I wouldn’t tell younger females... am I also being age-ist?

  5. I don’t even know wtf a fujoshi is- I call tm women. Period. Also- yeah it is unfair for a woman to win a contest for men. GC recongnjzing sex is kind of the point of gc. To try to say that recognizing that a man should be won that competition is pointless. Our whole point is that sex trumps gender. So explain how GC is wrong for supporting that idea, and how the very idea is incorrect.

  6. Can you please explain how saying homo=same sex, hetero= opposite sex, and bi= either/both sexes is homophobic, and people pressuring lesbians to sleep with males and straight men to sleep with males is not coercive and or homophobic?

  7. GC is the one saying that people don’t control who they are attracted to. QT is the one telling people that their sexuality is bigoted for not including trans people post or pre op. How is pressuring people to sleep with people their very sexuality rules out the right thing to do?

  8. Oh you found one thread? One? Do you want to see how many abusive, sexist, racist, incel speak ridden, and homophobic threads i can find from tras and qt? You wanna play this game we can, you will lose. Horribly. There’s way to much evidence for how toxic tras are. Let’s compare links if you want. May take me a few days to fully compile what I’ve seen from your side tho. All you can show us is gc believing in basic biology and possibly being snarky about it- snark doesn’t erase truth tho

  9. They can be genuine libfems. They’re just also genuinely brainwashed, guilted, and gaslit. I’m sure their beliefs are genuine- but if they are anything like you I’m also certain that they don’t have their facts straight.

  10. Backtracking because I skipped it- no, no, no- gc does not think that all trans people are white or that trans poc don’t exist. We think the trans poc and the violence committed against them are being exploited by the white trans people. We think the white trans people are capitalizing on what is not even being done to them to gain sympathy. While they remain out of danger (obvi there are some cases, the poc cases are drastically higher.)

  11. Sounds like you don’t know shit about gc and our beliefs other than that transwomen are grossly misogynistic men and transmen are women. It’s odd that you tried to come at me with so much confidence while being so ignorant of what you’re debating. If this is confusing to you I’m more than happy to elaborate. Once again, you’ve made arguments that are based on falsehoods and an obviously lack of understanding.

  12. At the end of the day, you are fighting for mass conversion therapy, serial rape being acceptable practice for a select group of people, erasure of the female sex and the rights of females, sterilizing and stunting the mental and physical development of children, homophobia, gender stereotypes being reinforced, and mass compelled speech along with silencing those who hold different beliefs. And you’re proud of this?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Have not seen any racism, homophobia, or incel speak from GC. Please, elaborate? Please explain how someone pointing out that white people are capitalizing on poc is racist, not the white people who are using a poc as a poster child???

I literally just pointed out GC racism, yet you’re still denying it. This case is not an example of white people capitalizing on POC. POC are participating in GenCyn threads, as is their right. Laverne Cox, Yance Ford, MJ Rodriguez, Indya Moore are all trans people of color. In this thread How are trans people oppressed?, a user complained her black and Latina friends cancelled her because she is GC. Are people of color who are trans or support the trans movement race traitors? GC has called trans men sex traitors.

GC’s whole point is that gender is a construct that we want dismantled. Please explain how saying men and women should be able to dress and present however they want is sexist?

Saying people should be able to dress and present how they want is not sexist. Saying “women act this way due to female socialization” or “the TIFs are so much nicer than the TIMs”.

No GC person I know pretends women=nice and men= evil.if anything, the only person here saying men are beasts and evil is qt... Are there man hating feminists? I’m sure. Do men hating feminist equal gc? No. Someone can be gc and also hate men, GC as man haters is not a gc stance. Also- have you just missed all of the gc men? You’re once again, ill informed.

GC says this all the time. They said it a few times in the old GC sub. But if QT said this, please link to posts.

I don’t even know wtf a fujoshi is- I call tm women. Period. Also- yeah it is unfair for a woman to win a contest for men. GC recongnjzing sex is kind of the point of gc. To try to say that recognizing that a man should be won that competition is pointless. Our whole point is that sex trumps gender. So explain how GC is wrong for supporting that idea, and how the very idea is incorrect.

Why do you care if a female won a competition made for men? Men are not oppressed.

Can you please explain how saying homo=same sex, hetero= opposite sex, and bi= either/both sexes is homophobic, and people pressuring lesbians to sleep with males and straight men to sleep with males is not coercive and or homophobic?

Some people are attracted to gender presentation and not sex. I know a trans women. Before she transitioned I was attracted to her. However she was asexual, if she wasn’t I would have asked her out. Now that she transitioned, although she doesn’t 100% pass, I am no longer attracted to her because she looks too feminine. However, I am attracted to trans men who are post op. I am attracted to men and trans men, not women and trans women. I’m straight.

GC is the one saying that people don’t control who they are attracted to. QT is the one telling people that their sexuality is bigoted for not including trans people post or pre op. How is pressuring people to sleep with people their very sexuality rules out the right thing to do?

QT, including myself, says people can sleep with whoever they want without pressure. On the old GCdebatesQt sub this was asked, QT unanimously responded you can sleep with whoever you want. Read this thread by GenCyn titled You're not transphobic if you don't want to date transwomen as a cis lesbian, you're only transphobic if you spew this rhetoric..

Oh you found one thread? One? Do you want to see how many abusive, sexist, racist, incel speak ridden, and homophobic threads i can find from tras and qt? You wanna play this game we can, you will lose. Horribly. There’s way to much evidence for how toxic tras are. Let’s compare links if you want. May take me a few days to fully compile what I’ve seen from your side tho. All you can show us is gc believing in basic biology and possibly being snarky about it- snark doesn’t erase truth tho

Then link these threads.

They can be genuine libfems. They’re just also genuinely brainwashed, guilted, and gaslit. I’m sure their beliefs are genuine- but if they are anything like you I’m also certain that they don’t have their facts straight.

I got all the facts straight. I read r/gendercritical, read and still read r/gendercynical and trans subs. I read Ovarit, GC blogs, s/gendercritical, etc. That’s where I base my opinions from.

Backtracking because I skipped it- no, no, no- gc does not think that all trans people are white or that trans poc don’t exist. We think the trans poc and the violence committed against them are being exploited by the white trans people. We think the white trans people are capitalizing on what is not even being done to them to gain sympathy. While they remain out of danger (obvi there are some cases, the poc cases are drastically higher.)

GC also capitalizes on trans men. For instance on Reddit a trans man complained some trans women are silencing trans men. GC in the old sub linked to the thread, said all trans women are like this, and said to the trans men men don’t care about them and to come back to their sisters. Though when trans men complain about GC silencing them GC says they will continue to say/do whatever they want. GC was using a trans man’s post to shit on trans women.

At the end of the day, you are fighting for mass conversion therapy, serial rape being acceptable practice for a select group of people, erasure of the female sex and the rights of females, sterilizing and stunting the mental and physical development of children, homophobia, gender stereotypes being reinforced, and mass compelled speech along with silencing those who hold different beliefs. And you’re proud of this?

In my posts I said a few times people should be raped and forced to be attracted to people they aren’t. Point out specific sentences though. I am of the female sex and trans people did not erase my rights. I’m somewhat against transitioning minors. Finally, Reddit banned all the GC subs. I’m not Reddit. GC created their own site and it’s not being taken down. They have a platform.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Re your link- so... please explain how people expressing concern for this person is wrong? They’re literally discussing fear for her safety. Where there some mean comments? Sure. But again- have you completely missed the way tras and qt talk about gc? Are you telling me that a gc person calling Someone stupid is equal to the rape, death, and conversion therapy comments and memes hurled at gc women? Is calling someone stupid worse than saying you want to trap all gc women, rape and impregnant them constantly so that they can give you the babies you can’t have because you’re a whole fucking male? Is it worse than saying that you want to tie gc women up and make them take your “girl dick” until they like it? Because that’s what the people you’re defending say. If you don’t believe me, we can make a post asking both gc and qt to share posts, comments, articles and memes that display the violence and harassment that our two sides hurl at each other. But again- it would make qt and tras look like rape culture enthusiasts who hate women. Maybe, in your opinion, it will make gc look like man haters(I disagree), but it won’t show any of us threatening mass rape and abuse. That’s all your team.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

well informed

won’t even hear opposing ideas

Lmao.

[–]pinkpaperplates 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

think most people are well informed on what they're advocating for.

I’m very late in replying to this but a quick look at the far-right or Trump supporters in the U.S. easily shows that this statement is not true.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

and the rest of the LGBTQ+

But TQ+ is heavily against LGB nowadays. Especially lesbian spaces are either banned or erased, attack on lesbians is huge. They are attacking us with literally the same words that christians attackd us, word to word. Being born in heavily homophobic country with outlawed homosexuality that rhetorics is literally the same. I am really sick that we always need to fight for ourselves against homophobes who are supported by masses. But I just wish we would be just allowed to live and we will not be outlawed (or banned from all spaces) or an instrument of validation.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

How is QT against LGB (and saying "trans lesbians are lesbians" is not against LGB)?

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Homosexuality is innate, it is not some "preference", and we can not "unlearn love for pussy and accept penises". You know how many straight men said to me exactly the words that transwomen are saying to me nowadays? Sexuality does not work for genders it is about sex. For me, having synesthesia for smells, I can tell who is trans by just sniffing them, I do not need to see them, and my organism just does not work for it. I was born in homophobic society, where everything about homosexuality was banned, I always had crashes on women, but did not know that women can be together, later I was married on a man, as everyone was saying that it is impossible to be with women or to love women, however nothing was working, sexologist said I am frigid - I still really, really tried to get aroused, we tried everything and I was really wanting to become heterosexual or bisexual and love men, but nothing worked, I thought I am asexual. Gladly after divorce I met bisexual woman who was in USA and "frigidness" vanished like first snow under rain. Later students in my university saw I am kissing with woman, and beated the shit out of me after lessons, principle saw that but said nothing, she only stopped them from raping me, later I was fired from job when boss learned I am lesbian from somewhere, and all the time I had men around me trying to get into my panties, all were saying that "your husband was just bad in bed" or "bad person", a lot of men were saying "I love women and effeminate, so I am lesbian-man" (our language is gendered, so they were using masculine version of word lesbian), they were saying that "you just need to find good dick" or "my dick is special", sending me dickpics in social media. And you know what? Transwomen/transbians are almost all pre-op, and they are acting exactly the same, saying exactly same phrases, even sending me dickpics (I deleted my social media because of few stalkers from them), now just "I am effeminate and my dick is effeminate, so I am lesbian", "you just never tried transbian dick", "my dick is girldick, so it is special" and so on. They do not understand the homosexuality at all, all this is extremely homophobic, like really really strongly. Queer men and women are pushing from other side - most of them are straight, but still calling themselves lesbians and pushing around in social medial or news their view of lesbianism that has nothing to do with real lesbianism and more porn inducted or some weird stuff not connected to sexuality or sexual attraction. And the whole idea that gender-non-conforming women and lesbians must be a man is both homophobic and sexist. So many transmen are just young lesbians who are running away from this garbage and finding that it is the only way for them together in today's society. I can rant forewer, days and days. It is just same old sexism, with exactly same words, with exactly same victimisation and gaslighting, nothing has changed.

And if you interested - yes, I tried with post-op transwomen. And no, my body did not responded still, even tho neo-vagina visually looked very close to real one. However, everything in that person was not female, and that person did not know female body, feelings and zones as well, and female experience was lacking either, and even scent was absolutely different (and that person was on hormones for 20 years, since teen years), and neo-vagina was not able to self-lubricate as well, just everything was wrong and my body was not arousing, even thought I really tried.

And refusing someone sex - is not same as hating them. Not wanting to date someone or some group of people - is not same as hating them. When we are saying "no", this means no.

Homosexuality is not a choice, it can not be unlearned. If it was a choice - gays in Iran or Saudi Arabia would be just unlearning it and not being executed. If it was able to unlearn and learn new sexuality - I'd be still married and living happy life (my ex-husband was really good person, I am still friends with him, he may be one of the best men I know), but it can't be unlearned. It is just facts. Saying otherwise is homphobia, pushing dicks on lesbians - is homophobia. Sexual orientation is not someone's else validation. Saying "unlearn genital preferences" - is conversion therapy.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well said. Every human being should read your post. I wish I could vote for it 1000 times.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Saying that males can be lesbians is actually against the L in LGB. Since... lesbian is a term for a female exclusively sexually attracted to other females.

Pushing lesbians to sleep with transwomen who are pre op (but also honestly, post op as well) is inherently anti lesbian, since... lesbian is a term for females exclusively sexually attracted to other females (and even post op TW aren’t females)

The idea that someone who is same sex attracted is a transphobe for not including a member of the opposite sex just because they are trans in their dating pool is inherently anti-homosexuality, since... at best a trans person can maybe have genitalia intended to resemble the opposite sex’s genitalia but will never actually have it and they still haven’t changed sex. So forcing this idea that gay men or lesbian women have to open themselves up to sleeping with someone of the opposite sex is pretty much conversion therapy borrowed from back in the day “Christians”.

Saying that bisexual no longer means attracted to both sexes is inherently anti bisexual, so is the implication that I’ve seen so often that a bisexual person should be open to sleeping with any trans person, pre or post op. Maybe it’s not biphobic but it’s incel speak at it’s finest

The fact that some TW can’t accept that being in a relationship with another male (or TM with another female) means they are literally in a homosexual relationship is pretty anti homosexuality. It places value on a heterosexual relationship when there’s nothing wrong with homosexual relationships and they shouldn’t care that technically, definitively, they would be in one.

The idea that’s being spread now, that a gay woman or man should “reevaluate their (genital) preference(s)” to include trans people of the opposite sex is basically saying that sexuality is a choice, it’s a preference that can and should be unlearned. It contradicts the point we make about being born lgb, not choosing to be. It’s also coercive as fuck which is not anti lgb but is a huge problem.

Eta- obligatory not all trans people do this even tho the ones that don’t don’t do shit to stop this from being said and forced on people

[–]catoborosnonbinary 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I am in almost total agreement with you, but I also recognise that language is descriptive and not prescriptive, and some trans women use the term lesbian to describe themselves. Some people are attracted to the feminine sex characteristics that some trans women have, and some of those people are women. This is not my experience, and for many including myself, sexual attraction is a primitive instinct tied closely to immutable biological sex. But this is not everyone's experience. It seems strange to call a trans woman attracted to women straight. I am cool with trans women describing themselves as lesbians, but trans women have precisely zero right to demand that cis lesbians find them attractive. Trancel talk of "genital preferences" is homophobia.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you. I respect your opinion. My only thing is- language is descriptive, but trans people seem to want to ignore the fact that there are descriptors that don’t need to be warped for them. Lesbian describes a female attracted to other females. It has nothing to do with males. What is wrong with being bisexual? Why can’t a woman who typically dates females but who is open to sleeping with transwomen refer to herself as bisexual, even if she adds the caveat of only being attracted to transwomen and women? A trans woman attracted to women is still a straight male. Why can’t they be acknowledged?

I get why they want to use these words- I actually used to not even care that they use them, tho I thought they were using them incorrectly. My issue is forcing it. TW are being welcomed into female spaces and then dictating language usage. That’s not okay. You can consider yourself a lesbian if you’re a TW attracted to women, I can’t stop how you see yourself- you have no right to force me to accept that you’re a lesbian and certainly no right to pressure me to include you in my sexuality (I’m not a lesbian, I’m bi. I’m just saying...). The only way lesbian fits a transwoman is if you think TWAW. I don’t think that, so I don’t see how it applies to them, ever. I used to be okay with TW calling themselves women or even lesbians, but now it seems like anything you accept from them leads to more taking and more erasure so now it’s like I want to protect women and girls too much to ever be comfortable with TW calling themselves women and lesbians. It’s just one more thing to take. It’s just one more area to infiltrate and take over and warp to suit them.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The only way lesbian fits a transwoman is if you think TWAW.

Even then it holds not true, because lesbian is female homosexual, not woman gender sexual. So you need to abandon science and believe that penis is a part of female biology and that female studies should no longer be only about female body, but about male body as well. And that makes everything even worse, as female body is heavily understudied in compare with male body.

Homosexual person is attracted to sex, not to gender. Saying otherwise is homophobia and one of things homosexual people were fighting against. And now when not conservatives are saying same thing - it is now okay suddenly? Why when not conservatives are saying homophobic, racist and/or misogynic thing and enforcing them same way as coservatives before - is okay? It is not okay.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. I was trying to say I get why they want to refer to themselves as lesbians based on their logic. I don’t think the word lesbian (or woman, or girl, or female, or she, or her...) is appropriate for transwomen ever

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do not think anyone should be able to force someone else to conform to their language or worldview.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And the actual point I made about female socialisation enforcing niceness and the tea movement framing itself as niceness, you have any response to that?

Or just another retelling of how you think feminism is for whales and men and LEGO bricks. You’ve told me you’re a feminist for anything other than women many times before.