QT: What is the difference between a butch woman and a trans man?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]catoborosnonbinary 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In my view, self ID, because gender identity, which is entirely subjective, is the only difference between a trans man and a cis woman. And note that I did not refer to butch because trans people can be GNC and trans men can present femme or masc; these are gender expression and not gender identity. Dysphoria/euphoria may not present or may be felt differently by different people; it is typically a symptom, but not a cause. Transition occurs to improve quality of life, typically to relieve dysphoria, but is not required. So we are left with gender identity, that is, one's innate sense of self in relation to our sexually dimorphic species and gendered society.

[–]worried19[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Self ID seems like such a flimsy thing to me. Like there are no requirements, no qualifications. I can start calling myself a man tomorrow, and all of a sudden I'm male and my boyfriend is gay based on my say so? It just doesn't make logical sense. I'd still be the exact same person I was the day before.

[–]catoborosnonbinary 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, sexual attraction based on the gender identity of others makes no sense to me. My experience is that my sexual attraction is based on the sex not the gender identity of the object of my desire. If you started identifying as a man tomorrow, you would still be female and retain your female sex characteristics, and your boyfriend would still be straight (assuming that he is cis, that is, male). I do not know how this changes for those who change sex characteristics; a cis man who loves a fully transitioned trans women also seems kinda straight to me, but what if the trans woman was pre-everything and still presenting masculine? I think we are attracted mainly to sex characteristics. Gender identity does not come into it.

Edit #1:

Identity may seem flimsy but it is the core of who we are as people. How would you interact with those around you if you saw yourself as a predator who used those around you as disposable resources? How would you interact with those around you if you saw yourself as a part of single super-organism in which all humans loved each other as ourselves because we are all part of an unbroken humanity? Identity gives us the "why" for many of our actions.

Edit #2 (I am enjoying this tangent):

And this is why I am adamantly opposed to identitarianism and wokeness: indoctrinating people that they have an identity that is being permanently oppressed fills the world with negativity and divides society. This is probably my main complaint with radical feminism, despite my support for second-wave feminist principles.