Both: What are your feelings on BDSM and the sex-positivity movement?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

BDSM itself Is fine, but like any form of extreme activity has to be done carefully. The sub is in an extremely vulnerable position and there are Doms who get drunk on their trip and lose all respect for the person they are playing with. It doesn't happen often, but we probably could do better. I'm not sure how, since it has entered the mainstream now and good books on the topic like new bottoming book or the lesbian sm safety manual didn't come along with it. Which is a shame and keeps their message from reaching some who need it.

As you might have guessed I don't have an issue with either bdsm or sex positivity. Both kinda go hand in hand as bdsm celebrates the carnal and makes sex a lifestyle. The big issue I have with some parts of either community is, when they present their lifestyle as superior.

Legally bdsm is a touchy subject. In my country I t's basically illegal, but as long as no one sues no one makes a fuzz about it. Basically a legal gray area.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Do you have moral qualms about any of it?

There are people out there who sexualize extreme things like rape, slavery, and the Holocaust.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Yes and no. Maybe. It's complicated. I can't say that I have no moral qualms with what most people would consider problematic like rape or setting a scene in Auschwitz. But I don't consider the act of playing out these scenes itself immoral at all. The bigger issue for me personally is when people start to boast about these scenes outside of kink places. While it's usually understood in the kink community that setting a scene during the Holocaust is mostly set dressing or the play during that scene to spark both the sub and Doms imagination, this is likely lost in more vanilla spaces and could take the focus of the actual tragedies that occurred during this time.

The reason why I don't judge people who engage in this sort of play might be, because I myself have kinks that would easily be considered immoral. Especially given my personal history my testimony on these might be used by bad actors to justify their harm of innocent people. I have seen a few people in my kinks community express the sentiment and while some shot them down immediately others weren't as quick call out their frankly horrible sentiments.

The reason I don't judge those seeking to play out their kinks is because, at least for me, my kink isn't as much a want as it is a need. It's something I'm struggling with quite often and I have done things that I am not proud of to get my fix. The only person harmed was me, just to be clear.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

my kink isn't as much a want as it is a need.

How can fulfilling a kink be a need?

(not judging, just trying to understand)

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sounds more like a fetish than a kink, in that case.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On one hand im just not satisfied unless I get it the way I need and on the other I can't really think about anything else unless I'm satisfied. I'm aware that this is really pathetic on so many levels, but I honestly can't help it.Due to my past and dysphoria I can just set aside this craving most of the time, but if I actually have sex It usually doesn't leave me satisfied. Maybe it's a fetish, but I don't need it to get aroused so I'm honestly not sure.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Do you think it says anything at all about the people who get pleasure from being the perpetrator in these scenarios?

I can't reconcile that with morality, personally. Just because there are willing victims doesn't excuse the people who happily abuse others. If I had desires like that (which I don't, thank God), I'd go to my deathbed denying them.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not really. Simply playing out these desires does not say anything about people who play them out. It's how you do it that says everything. The line between abusive asshole and caring Dom is respect for the person you play with both outside and during play. Is there any aftercare? Is he able to snap out of the scene at an instant. Is she willing to ease you into a scene if you aren't yet ready? Is she making her own lines absolutely clear? Does she negotiate the scene with you beforehand? Etc. Etc.

These things make a huge difference and say a lot about who that person is outside of play. Having a certain kink does not say more about the person than wether or not they like oral sex.

doesn't excuse the people who happily abuse others

I completely agree with the sentiment, but I fear our definition of abuse is different.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, our definition of abuse is different.

I think we're pretty much diametrically opposed on this matter. In my view, taking pleasure from hurting other people is always wrong, no matter if the victims want it. And sexualizing evil things is always evil.

[–]Porcelain_QuetzalTabby without Ears 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why is the reenactment of evil in a safe environment evil? Does the same go for plays or movies? Or is it l just the use of an evil backdrop for sexual context that's bad? If yes why is that okay for other things, but not for sex?

I won't argue about wether or not hurting someone for pleasure is bad, because you're entitled to your own morals. I just wanted to remind you, that bdsm does not have to involve pain.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To take pleasure from evil is evil, in my book. If a man wants to rape a woman, gets pleasure from the idea of forcing himself on a woman and the woman resisting him, takes pleasure in her pain and fear, that man is evil. I will never waver on that.

A man who plays a serial killer or a rapist in a movie is not taking sadistic pleasure in the role, one would hope. If he does, I would likewise label him evil.