People who appreciate traditionalism in society, how do we know we're not the actually the bad ones?

submitted by PencilPusher55 from self.AskSaidIt

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[–]Rah 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

It starts with being a problem that you dont care that others are self-mutilating themselves spiritually, mentally and even physically. You are not a traditionalist if you "dont give a shit" if others are doing it; you are a libertarian, and would be labelled a crazed leftist two hundred years ago.

Unless you actually do the minimal effort to preserve truth and say that the spoon is actually a spoon, not a metal object, so you might save face, you cannot carry your cross, and for that reason, not preserving any tradition.

[–]StillLessons 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You make perhaps the most critically important point: The spoon needs to remain a spoon.

I'm on board with adult freely-chosen LGB. Who a person is attracted to is entirely subjective and who am I to judge? The world of sexual attraction is a minefield for all of us.

Transexual is where things become more difficult. Here I am still willing to live and let live as long as I don't have to declare an objective reality which is clearly false, and as long as children are not indoctrinated. The words "woman" and "man" represent easily, intuitively, clearly defined and clearly witnessed biological reality. Are there rare exceptions, yes. But they are a tiny number in the population.

These biological realities do not entirely define how people think. This is obvious, because transexuals are convinced they belong not to their biological sex. But the opposite is also absolutely true: how people think can not and does not define biological reality. To argue that it does, as the gender fanatics do, is to discard the concept of objectively viewing our world in any way at all. In other words, if we are allowed to rewrite biological reality on our whim, then why stop at sex? Why not say "I'm a tree!"? I love trees. I think in the way that I am convinced trees think. I'm a tree!

We need to accept that objective truths exist in order to survive. Otherwise, the disconnect between what we want and what is true will kill us. Nature is indifferent to us. Step too far out of line, and nature finds a new species to take our place.

Long story short: women are women, men are men, trans-women are trans-women and trans-men are trans-men. Trans-women are not women, and trans-men are not men. To say otherwise is to disrespect the biological realities of sex, which have evolved over millions of years and are far wiser than we in our individual thoughts can ever be.

Lastly, indoctrinating young children in transgender ideology is evil. I grew up in an environment where I didn't even begin to consider sexual questions at all until ~10 years old. It was never forced on me, so my guess is that my "sexual awakening" was related (naturally) to adolescence. The idea of having adults - homosexual, heterosexual, trans, whatever - interacting with children in an explicitly sexual environment (Trans Story Hours are basically a strip club environment for children) is absolute moral degeneracy and destruction.

There are limits, and there must be. I find what is happening to those poor kids tragic.

[–]Rah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Who a person is attracted to is entirely subjective and who am I to judge?

God judges you. If you allow those who actively deny and mock God in your face, then are you a traditionalist? I do care about people having issues knowing who they are and being stuck thinking that pederasty is a valid identity. If it is so, why doesn't it bear fruit? I try to love people who do have these issues as God would, by not accepting that their choice of life cannot produce anything meaningful. Obviously, I do not mock and yell at gay people at the streets, but when confronted, I openly state their choices are sin and they are going to Hell.

The Overton Window is pushed so far left that people now are ready to accept anything, BUT, hormonal blockers and surgery for physionomical change. I remember twenty years ago when no one was against gay people, BUT allowing them to marry would corrupt marriage. The only position to take is to deny everything; I don't want men nor women to deny their chance to bear fruit, even if they think that at the moment its a valid choice. Would you want people to maim their left arm because they feel like its possessed? It's the same dillemma.

[–]StillLessons 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mmm. Interesting. You point out - accurately - that in fact I am not a "traditionalist" at all. My views have strayed from the mainline Christian theology upon which the western world was founded. I respect Christianity tremendously, and I deeply appreciate its role as the backbone upon which the majority of what we consider "western values" rests, but sadly, I find the entirety of the Bible as written unconvincing. Too much focus on setting one group against another (initially the Jews as the Chosen People, and then those who accept Jesus as the Christ as superior to those who don't). Whenever I read a document that limits "good" to one set of beliefs over another, the thought always comes to my mind, "But God created the other group too."

So as long as their behavior doesn't fly in the face of reality or create overt harm, I believe any group can live among us, getting along. Homosexuality, when practiced among adults as a personal preference and neither encouraged nor discouraged, seems to cause little harm in society. In this sense, the Hell you describe I don't believe in any more than I believe the superiority of the "anti-Heterornormative etc." that has set themselves up in opposition.

I have trouble with trans for the reasons I have already stated. First, it does fly in the face of evident reality - i.e. men are men, women are women, men are not women, and women are not men. Surgical and chemical faking it is a piss-poor alternative. And second, given the differences in mental health outcomes I refer to in my original comment at the top of this thread, transgender confusion does create overt harm. Confusing people by setting their perception of themselves and their world in opposition to objectively observed sex is inherently weaker than maintaining a simple self-consistent pairing of the two.

You're right. I'm not a traditionalist. But I am in favor of keeping things simple. I do believe in God, though not the Bible. I believe the world as created (which so far as I can see has always included homosexuality) is the work of God and is in fact God itself. God created all this, and it is beautiful when we accept God's creation in its entirety, rather than separating parts of it that we like from parts we don't. Transexuals are not accepting this creation. They believe that men and women as created are optional, and particularly importantly, they believe that sometimes they were created wrong, needing to change this to "correct" things. This is a tragic degradation of the wonderful gift we are given of physical vessels in which to witness and interact with God's creation.

Thanks for clarifying.

[–]PencilPusher55[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It doesn't hurt me. I cannot get upset over some dude in drag if it doesn't change my life. The issue is that now it does. It IS pushed everywhere, they ARE protected, and they DO hold power over normal people.

[–]Rah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The issue is exactly that it does not upset you, and you should be doing what you can, in your small capacity, to stop it. You cannot do that in state-level or city-level, but maybe in your neighbourhood or family. Baby steps.

[–]PencilPusher55[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

How do you stop it?

[–]Trajan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Educate people you know. Not blurting out the full story, as that comes across as being crazy. Little pieces of information can begin to poke holes in the narrative. I’ve had similar conversations around identity politics and Trump conspiracies.

[–]Rah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Talk to your close family about it. Be present in local elections, communities and forums. Do not let it fester in the local level and it won't stay fixed in bigger instances.

[–]Rah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

And before you kneejerk it, im not saying that you should take efforts and sacrifice yourself for those people (though you should, by at least telling them the truth), but it should bother you that by allowing these people to degrade your society uncontested, you are devolving the world slowly, making it worse for your children and grandchildren. Your thoughts are exactly what the people in 1960's had in mind; welcome to 60 years later. Two generations in and now we are close to state enforced homossexuality.

[–]Seahorse 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh man lol you couldn't be further off the mark.

I guess traditionalists aren't privy to such infighting but you can't actually be homosexual in today's LGBT environment.

Homosexual women and men are told they are bigoted if they express disinterest in transwomen or transmen (trans women are male of course and trans man are female, so I'm sure you can see the problem). They lose their jobs, they are threatened with violence and called slurs etc.

Most gay people do not associate with the modern LGBT movement, I certainly don't.

[–]Rah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Guess the Overton window doesn't care about who pushes it so hard in the other direction, after all.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Rah 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Thank you. Don't fall for the bait that children are expensive. Have as many as you can and educate them, be present. This already changes the world in a small way.