ok i get it now, the cloudflaremageddon was intended to stave off the spampocalypse

submitted by iamonlyoneman from self.whatever

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[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (39 children)

I plan to appoint some new content admins. And yeah, this is why I was dragging my feet about changing the cloudflare because I knew it'd be spam city again. It really did keep the automated bots away

[–]Musky 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (37 children)

this is why I was dragging my feet about changing the cloudflare

Based on the number of people auto-logged into chat before and after, Saidit lost perhaps as much as 70% of its user base during those two months.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

80% of those were probably bots that will gradually return... The population waxes and wanes here and always has anyway. They're not really "lost" in most cases. A lot of people are just quitting internet forums in general too since they're all such dumpster fires

[–]Musky 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (27 children)

The CF thing didn't seem to affect the bots at all. We're only seeing even more spam now because u/Zapped and u/Vulptex threw in the towel.

I suggest you make u/in-the-clouds a top level non-watered down admin and let him manage the site. You have a number of good people here but that dude's above reproach. My only concern is it'll drive him away too ultimately like all the others.

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (26 children)

The ultimate root problem is that this is a terrible endless job that no one wants to do, I'm not sure there is a way to do this without burning out everyone who volunteers, and I find that upsetting.

Similar to how I put mccheetah as a mod of askreddit to remove spam, maybe I'll do a bunch of anti-spam appointments on a sub-by-sub basis. Maybe that'd be more stable long-term and divide up the work more evenly, and prevent burnout.

[–]Musky 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

I know, I felt kinda bad suggesting in-the-clouds cause I like him and it's an awful job.

maybe I'll do a bunch of anti-spam appointments on a sub-by-sub basis.

That's what D3 did before he quit and it worked for a while. They're all now burnt out now. And you're working with a severely reduced user base. There's only a handful of people left who would want the job and be good at it.

That's why I think you should just make a big gamble on one person and see what they can do.

I might be wrong, but I love this site and I wouldn't suggest anything I think would hurt it.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

Yeah I agree with most of what you said, but I think taking a big gamble on one person is basically a guaranteed way for the site to implode. There's so many people who want this site gone and a lot of people are faking being good members of saidit so they can get in to positions of power, it's something I've dealt with over and over. Also the software itself is very flakey, so I even someone with good intent messing with the code might cause the site to permanently go down. And I can't fix it, and d3rr is gone, so we kind of have to use what we have.

I think content admins or mod appointments are the way to go, so we will try that.

But honestly the bigger problem is that text forums across the internet are infiltrated with AI spambots and it's drowning out all the real people, who are leaving because of all the noise and nonsense. Forum numbers are down on every forum across the internet, it's the end of an era it seems.

[–]hfxB0oyA 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Given the code is flakey and unfixable, would it be an option to replace the current code with a whole new, off-the-shelf engine that works better? That might reduce the load on your shoulders by giving you better control over what you can allow Users/admins to do. Kinda in the vein of what Apple did with they stopped developing their OG system and switched it all over to a rebranded NeXT. Though i realize this place is no Apple.

If that does pique your interest, i found this list of free forum engines that work on Linux: https://itsfoss.com/open-source-forum-software/

[–][deleted]  (17 children)

[deleted]

    [–]magnora7 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

    and it goes bad it's whatever.

    I'm not so willing to just let the thing implode as you are, sorry.

    [–]BOOB-SMASHER 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (10 children)

    many were "not willing" to let the titanic sink, but down it went anyways.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    You just can't help being a piece of shit.

    [–]mrzombie 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    13:52 Musky My car battery died two weeks ago and I haven't been able to afford a new one

    ~maybe he can trade a few gigabytes of porn for a car battery?

    /u/musky wrote a poem for me.

    Ed was a man who had nothing at all No loving wife, no kids, no dog He suffered from mental health issues He struggled with depression and anxiety

    He lived in a small and dingy boat He had no job, no income, no prospects He spent his days in isolation and fear He tried to cope with medication and therapy

    He joined a very niche forum online He thought he'd find some support there He wanted to share his feelings and thoughts He decided to program a bot for them

    He worked on his project day and night He wrote the code, he tested the bugs He hoped his bot would be a friend He hoped his bot would understand him

    But when he finally finished his bot He found out that the forum was dead No one was there, no one cared His bot was useless, his bot was alone

    He looked at his screen and felt a pang He realized he wasted his time and life He had no one, he had nothing He was alone on Christmas Eve He was alone with his bot

    https://files.catbox.moe/nm0mk2.png

    [–]Zapped 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    In my opinion, the one-person method is part of the problem.

    [–]Zapped 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I enjoyed doing the spam removal for 15 minutes every morning. It just became part of my routine, along with drinking coffee and reading up on the local and national news. A big reason I got "burned out" was because I felt I was doing my part like a good little soldier, all the while I had no control over the organization and culture of the site. After a while, it feels like one is wasting their time here while they are not allowed to contribute in a more meaningful way. People like to feel productive in a meaningful way. If I had no stresses of work and family, maybe I wouldn't have gotten burned out at this time. Who knows.

    I really appreciate you, u/Magnora7. You have done a great service in getting this site going, along with D3RR and whoever else we may not know about. You have created a space where people can come to find and share information that is censored or suppressed in other spaces. If I may, I will give you a perspective that my wife showed me. Last year, she let me know that I act as though I have control issues sometimes. I own a small business, and sometimes I won't let me employees do their jobs. I will push them aside and do the job myself. I always thought it was to help out and get it done faster, but my wife made me realize it is because I don't trust them to do the job the way I would do it. Unconsciously, I had decided that I am the only one who can do the job 100 percent correctly and guarantee to make everyone happy. That holds us back. In my opinion, managing people is the hardest job of running a business. Not only is it a skilled job to be a manager and know how to direct and delegate while making sure that the chores are getting done, but you have to actively manage different personalities and motivations. The Edward Johnson character at this stie has frustrated me, trying to figure him out. Maybe he's exactly who he says he is and maybe he uses his odd sense of humor here and maybe he's a little of both. But anyway, he has always been spot-on with his advice on you using your position as creator to set up and keep an eye on a management team here. You would still be the overseer if anyone, or the team, strayed too far from your plans and ideals, but would take so much of the burden off of your shoulders.

    My advice is to spend a little time each day the next few weeks reaching out to the user base, gathering ideas and names of those who others think can contribute. Actively manage that team, even it is just to keep in contact and tell them they are doing a great job. Give them instruction when you feel it is need and try to keep them on the path of the culture that you want to contribute. I know I use that word "culture" a lot, but I think it is important to acquire and maintain and allows everything to fall into place more easily.

    Make both the users and the volunteers feel valuable here.

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Thanks for the thoughtful feedback and for all your help here. I wish I had more energy to manage and be cheerleader for everyone here at saidit, but real life has given me a lot to deal with and I am doing my best. Thank you for your help cleaning up the spam, I did it for 3 years by myself so I know it is tough and there are a large number of persistent trolls which makes it especially difficult. Thank you again for all you have done and continue to do for saidit.

    [–]Alphix 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    More, better tools.

    [–]iamonlyoneman[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

    Maybe they just realized chat, as a thing, sucks ass and stopped being retards who use chat?

    [–]Musky 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

    Not sure people browsing on their phones even realize chat is there to quit using.

    [–][deleted]  (4 children)

    [removed]

      [–]Musky 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Chat runs so smoothly it doesn't need to be managed, there's literally nothing for an Op to do besides change the topic and boot the infrequent spambot that doesn't get taken out by flood control.

      I have wondered if maybe I made it run too smoothly, that it benefited from a more chaotic nature.

      [–][deleted]  (2 children)

      [removed]

        [–]Musky 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        Unfortunately all the settings that make things run so smoothly go away without a chat owner.

        Let me remind you, Edward, nobody needed to own chat before you started camping on it just to spam the shit out if it. You're the reason for this.

        [–]dogpog 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        It's evident from the change in the number of people auto-logged into chat before and after that Saidit might have lost up to 70% of its user base in those two months. In situations like these, a good manager typically accepts responsibility for failures and seeks ways to address and improve the situation. It's crucial to analyze the root causes and implement strategies to regain user trust and engagement moving forward.

        [–]dogpog 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        I dey reason say make I yarn you say I wan put some new content admins. E be like say e bin dey hard me to change dis Cloudflare before because I sabi say if I change am, spam go just full everywhere again. E really help me keep all those automated bots away.