I have been doing some reading on Jesus

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[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

Nothing in history is as it was written. People change stories, invent stories etc.

I do have a feeling that something important happened during that time, but let's first see what is likely fake.

The crucifixion story is full with negative symbolism, that was clearly added later. The whole story of betrayal to the death is just so degenerating.
It seems very similar to how you would portrait an enemy.
The coming back from death has just a minor effect on the whole story. He is not coming back as a king like Moses or a similar hero.

The wonder of turning water into wine is a 2000 years old magician trick from India. (They used a can with 2 storage places and 2 holes for the fingers). Was probably known. Maybe they want to portrait him as a trickster, but I don't know how they regarded such people at the time.

The fleeing of Jesus from Palestina to Greece seems logical to me. Easy to do with the fishermen. And the Romans probably targeted him, and the local churches did not like him.

The bible that we know now was revised by the church (500?). The bible from Rome was written by someone who was famous for killing Christians, and Rome became the center of Europe for a long time.

The dead-sea scrolls tell different stories. More Gnosis like. I think that these are closer to the real story.

There was also a St. Issa (different person) who went to Tibet, met some monks. Went back and got killed.

I also saw a lecture about the astrology at that time. They had 3 planets (=kings) coming from the east. The sirius star rising. And many more astrological similarities with the birth story. Astrology was very significant at that time.

In similar sense, the story of Moses is also full with holes and weird things. And there are some discussions whether Mohammed ever existed. It seems to have originated from a Christian town, as they used crosses on the coins.

So to me it seems that most of the written History is fake, but that many persons in the stories probably have lived. With a whole different story behind them. In Europe we have stories about kings who have lived (like Carolus), but the stories are just like fairytales.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You write great stuff, very insightful, thank you. 🙏

[–]raven9 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

...but the stories are just like fairytales

That is probably because for thousands of years there was no piped entertainment so the people made their own and laying there by the fire on a clear night making up stories about the stars was probably a big part of that. Those stories got retold and elaborated and handed down until people no longer remembered which were based on actual historical events and which were just entertainment.

[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Actually. The news today is not very different.
Most of the news is made-up stories based upon a few facts.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

Hebrew manuscripts of Matthew actually say astrologers where the canonical Greek version has magicians.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

The're both involved in magical thinking.

[–]Vulptex 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

"Magicians" is still less damning because it breaks the obvious connection with the star signs. In the Greek version there are three men who happen to be magicians being led by a star. In the Hebrew they're astrologers and it's clear that this star thing is astrology.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

You do know the history of bible translation right? There's the Hebrew version and the version used in the Latin Vulgate. This isn't a hidden conspiracy. There are some differences, but they don't say something completely different because languages don't have a 1-to-1 correspondence.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What could be considered as small differences can have major implementations. Even the word for god could pretty much have been interpreted as ruler or leader. Think the Pharaohs of Egypt. And yet the modern usage of the word god is a celestial space goat that decided to make the sun shine out of its ass one day, neither a ruler or a leader. Words are important, and their meanings equally so.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

No arguments there. That is why the official language of the Catholic Church used to be Latin, a dead language, till Freemasonry corrupted the Church by infiltrating seminaries.

By the way, sorceries in the Book of Revelation is pharmekia in Greek, because “magicians” used to create potions to cause abortions.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

With the possible exception of Mark, no book of the Bible was written in Latin.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

After being translated to Latin the Catholic Church kept using Latin so no further translation differences would happen.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Why not keep using Greek or Hebrew so there would be none at all?

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

No, the "original" Greek version also has magicians. But everyone is trying to act like these Hebrew manuscripts are medieval translations despite their primitiveness and differences which could only be because they're an older version than the Greek. Yes, I'm sure the Hebrew translator wanted to replace Greek Matthew's flowery language with Mark's less refined version and side with Luke in omitting several details and copy from the gospels of Thomas and Secret Mark which weren't even known in that time, all the while managing to find perfectly-fitting Hebrew puns and plays on words practically everywhere when the Greek has zero. Some of them are even necessary to understand the saying, like the one about throwing pearls before swine.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

How do you KNOW that the Christianity passed down the ages is wrong and your gnostic beliefs are correct? Don’t beg the question, give evidence or arguments.

I infer that Christ rose from the dead because everyone who died for Him refused to recant under the cruelest torture. That means He is from God, since only God has power over life and death. I don’t understand why God would let His religion basically fail and become obscure if it was so important, after certifying it with the resurrection.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

How do you KNOW that the Christianity passed down the ages is correct? Don’t beg the question, give evidence or arguments.

Jesus said you would not be popular if you follow him. He said this to an almost entirely Jewish audience, so you can't use the excuse that he only meant outsiders would hate you. Was the Judaism passed down in his day correct? Of course not! Why would Christianity be any different? Look at Christians today; who do they resemble more, Jesus or Pharisees? It's definitely the latter. In fact go read the sermon on the mount, Christians usually preach the exact opposite of everything he says there! He was against the world and everything it stands for, naturally he doesn't find many supporters in it.

You ask why he would "fail and become obscure". Yet he did say this would happen, and it's because he would have to force people to believe otherwise. Paul struggled to understand the same thing, which is why he said this:

since in the wisdom of God the world did not know God through wisdom, God was pleased through the foolishness of the proclamation to save those having faith. Since Jews ask for signs and Greeks search for wisdom; but we proclaim Anointed crucified, to Jews a snare and to Gentiles foolishness; but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, and the unborn things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, so that no flesh can boast, so that, just as it is written: “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So according to you, what is the point of Christianity? Jesus might as well have never bothered to incarnate if the best his followers can do is read tea leaves.

Judaism was true. But then they rejected their messiah. The messiah they will accept is around the corner.

Christianity is true, in my view, because He was a real person and the historical behavior of the his witnesses is compatible with the truth of the resurrection. No other religion has that.

That what people say is true or false has nothing to do with hypocrisy. That is just an ad hominem, and hypocrites will be punished.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No, the scribes and Pharisees were already evil. They wanted a messiah who would give them world domination and wealth and power. They hated Jesus because he wouldn't do that. He didn't play favorites and let them get away with crimes just because they were Jewish. And scribes were already changing things at least as far back as the time of Jeremiah.

Most Christians today have a very similar ideal messiah: one who will torment everyone they don't like and let them share in a reign of corrupt power. Dare say things like "turn the other cheek" amongst them and they will crucify you. The only reason they even like Jesus is because they think he's traditional for some reason, they hate everything he teaches. As much as they love their Bible they never seem to use it except for Genesis 2:2, Levitucus 18:22 and 20:13, Deuteronomy 22:5, Romans 1:18-32, 1 Corinthians 11:3-16 and 14:34-35, the pastoral epistles, the catholic epistles, and Revelation 6-21. They especially despise anything out of Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John. They just want Jesus to hand them a reign of terror over everyone else.

Jesus accomplished two things by coming to earth. First, he witnessed to people who wouldn't have gotten it otherwise. Second, he accomplished the most important thing in the world: clearing us of all charges for all the evil things we've done. By the way, there are some versions of Christianity that believe Jesus was never actually present on earth, but that it's an allegory to represent what happened in the spiritual realm. The writer of John seems to take this perspective, since John the Baptist had to come as a witness to all of this and everyone had to believe through him. Possibly Paul too, since he never once quotes Jesus or mentions things he did other than getting crucified and rising from the dead. I am not convinced but I have an open mind.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The personification of astronomical entities and phenomenon is not a topic the devout tend to draw upon as it doesn't quite fit into the narrative when claimed that these personifications were actually real people or events. It was briefly touched upon at the beginning of the documovie Zeitgeist.

https://youtu.be/LPhANpsR1gM

[–]ID10T 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I never considered the water into wine as a simple magic trick. But it does seem very likely. Here's a video on an "assassin's teapot" that would easily accomplish this trick.

https://youtu.be/jJL0XoNBaac

[–]zyxzevn🐈‍⬛ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great that you found it.
I was looking for the video that was featuring a 2000 year old vase from India using the same trick.