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[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

The thing is GC isn't like the other radfems, its obvious to me.

I'm surprised to hear you say that. What "other radfems" do you mean? I guess I think of GC as the radfems (as opposed to libfems).

The strength of the alt right is that it has no taboo, while other groups have taboos that they don't want to admit and hence dance around with long weird explanations.

Not sure I agree. "black organizing is their own accomplishment, they're not a Jewish golem"? "only 1% of males should breed?" "the holocaust happened"? "it really isn't all the jews fault"? "race-mixing is beneficial"? "only matriarchal civilizations last"? "being cruel to people in your civilization is generally going to harm your civilization?" "there is a lot of harmful-to-Whites stuff in the 'manosphere'"? "Asians are objectively superior and we should breed out whiteness asap with them?" "Jews are obviously superior and we should be their willing slaves or all convert?" "A lot of us are just contrarians who're mad we were stopped from bullying ppl we want to bully"? "Blacks and women are obviously becoming more capable and it's becoming clearer we're not just the best and it's scary"? "feminism is really good"? "transgenderism is a good general framework"? "we should support White women so they can choose to have all the kids they want with only the highest quality male genetics"? I feel like they sell themselves as having this hidden truth but ... idk if they always measure up to that. A lot of alt-right thinking seems motivated to me. I feel like a lot of the racial and genetic theories I've learned are a bit wishful and not based in scientific curiosity. I'm not sure they don't have taboo-ish things of their own.

Although perhaps we've been hanging around different parts of the pro-white scene.

"Leftists" don't see biology. So if a turk grows up in germany, he becomes just as german and anyone else, which is just stupid.

I feel like this is a simplification, idk. Maybe. People think whites have enough to give. And people don't like feeling like their own are bullying outsiders unfairly. Like, that seems like it's part of it too. I don't think there's no validity to the viewpoint, though idk. There's also the "inferiority complex" thing where you think everyone richer or whatever looks down on you, so it's ok if you abuse them.

And maybe whites are a bit, well, they think they're the best, and they're altruistic, and they want to help. The "white savior" thing. It's disappointing to have to admit you can't help and save everyone like you wanted to.

I think leftism has valid points.

because we've been taught to be polite and not say mean things

Yeah it seems more and more like even a small amount of well-meaning dishonesty can have disastrous consequences.

What do you feel the alt-right has been unable to be beaten in debate about, if you want to answer here? Most of it is about framing the debate.

That would suggest they're good at debating, but not that they're necessarily the most in touch with reality, no?

It's just ultimately we're all in the same boat, men and women and we need each other.

Yeah, agree completely.

[–][deleted]  (14 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

    I'm surprised to hear you say that. What "other radfems" do you mean? I guess I think of GC as the radfems (as opposed to libfems).

    Yes, you're probably right. Goes to show how far their control over language goes.

    To give a little context, there exists a split between "liberal feminism" and "radical feminism". Generalizing a lot here, but: radical feminism thinks pornography is exploitation, feminism is for female women only, doesn't believe in transgender ideology, thinks female sex role expectations often harm women (extra time spent doing makeup, expectations to be deferential, etc). Liberal feminism thinks feminism is for men too and helps men, generally upholds transgender ideology, thinks sex work is work like any other, thinks makeup is empowering if women want to do it.

    showing a graph over the white population in the US historically with a projected future is one of the fastest and most effective redpills for a lot of people. At least it used to be. Mentioning that on reddit would get you instant banned from most subreddits

    Wow. Worst abuse I got on reddit was for saying "Our people should have children!"

    I feel like they sell themselves as having this hidden truth but ... idk if they always measure up to that.

    Where do you have those quotes from? [...] What would those taboo-ish things be?

    Oh! They're not actually quotes. They're ideas I think the alt-right wouldn't really consider, or would consider counter to their narrative. Something like taboos, that they don't really want to think or talk about because it's uncomfortable.

    [–][deleted]  (12 children)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      You can't convert btw. You're like a dog - not in a good way - to them.

      You can't? Oh. I had thought you could. There's that video of that Jewish guy saying "Yes! We are going to dominate the world! But there's a way to avoid your fate: just convert already!"

      they have a different set of morals than us.

      How are the morals different?

      There are a lot of quotes. [...] I can't say anyone of them are taboo although I'm not an expert on all of them.

      Yeah I just meant them as examples of stuff I thought would run counter to their narrative that I think have some truth to them, that many members might try to not believe.

      Fair enough though about your responses to them, and on reflection DAR often did have intelligent responses to a lot of this stuff when confronted with it. Imo though they tend to overstate some things and aren't right about everything, and do engage in some degree of motivated thinking.

      [–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

      You can't? Oh. I had thought you could.

      Let's just say that its very hard :)
      Judaism is an ethnoreligion.

      How are the morals different?

      In many ways. Christians can't think the wrong things without sinning. Jews on the other hand can't do the wrong things, which means they invent all kinds of ways to do the things they cant do while not actually doing them. Like an entire jewish town connected wires on the rooftops between buildings so that the entire town counted as "indoor". They see cheating as part of the game. Those who follow the rules, lose basically.

      Yeah I just meant them as examples of stuff I thought would run counter to their narrative that I think have some truth to them, that many members might try to not believe.

      Yes, but not taboos imo. You really think that whiteness should be bred to extinction because asians are "objectively superior"?

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

      Those who follow the rules, lose basically.

      Interesting. Fits Jacob's story. Israel: "He who struggles with God".

      should be bred to extinction because asians are "objectively superior"?

      I'm not saying any of those things are my actual opinions, just that they're ideas I think there's some evidence for that the alt-right would probably not embrace for motivated reasons.... I could be wrong though, at least about part of the alt-right. There is a part that just wants to feel better about themselves for being white when they don't have a lot going for them (that's probably the group I fit into, unfortunately, so it's possible I'm doing some projecting onto the group as a whole, but I don't think I'm the only one as this problem is discussed elsewhere. And I do try not to be a drain or whatever.)

      And "should" is different from "this is how the world works."

      I think a lot of this talk about white biological superiority breeds complacency. Which is profoundly dangerous. People think they will be secure because of genetics, and so don't think they need to do other stuff to survive. In a way leftism is more of a "white supremacist" thing, none of it could possibly work unless whites really do have plenty to give and are permanently so superior that they do not need to aggressively invest in their own as much as possible.

      I would strongly prefer for whites to continue to exist (and continue to develop), in all the unique ethnic variations that exist (euros: please stop watching america so much, I know we're loud but your traditions are precious and irreplaceable). I just think that it's bad to automatically assume it will just happen, I think we need to fight for it and make sure that's the outcome.

      [–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      I'm not saying any of those things are my actual opinions, just that they're ideas I think there's some evidence for that the alt-right would probably not embrace for motivated reasons

      Alt-righters are not jerking off to IQ. That's the leftist caricurature of the alt-right. The alt-right is pro-white. Even if whites were like dogs, they would still support their own kind because thats the ideology.
      IQ differences between races is just a way to break the anti-white and egalitarian narrative.

      that's probably the group I fit into

      You're selling yourself short. You're just as good as anyone else.

      I think a lot of this talk about white biological superiority breeds complacency. Which is profoundly dangerous.

      There is some truth to this.

      In a way leftism is more of a "white supremacist" thing, none of it could possibly work unless whites really do have plenty to give and are permanently so superior that they do not need to aggressively invest in their own as much as possible.

      In a lot of ways actually. If I didn't know about the tribe, I could've easily been convinced that its a white supremacy movement. You can frame almost all of the leftist policies in a pro-white perspective.

      [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      break the [...] egalitarian narrative. [...] You're just as good as anyone else.

      lol! you are a more liberal type at heart, aren't you? I appreciate the encouragement, but, well, no, I'm not. I shouldn't sell myself short, or hold myself back from being the best I can be, or think I don't have a responsibility to contribute what I can, but I also shouldn't exaggerate. A lot of the people in the alt-right are successful, financially secure, with several children, at my same age or younger. I'm not. I think those differences matter. I want the successful ones to propagate whatever it is they're doing that's successful.

      The alt-right is pro-white. Even if whites were like dogs, they would still support their own kind because thats the ideology.

      Yeah. This is what I'm drawn to it for.

      [–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      lol! you are a more liberal type at heart, aren't you?

      Yes, for sure.

      Yeah. This is what I'm drawn to it for.

      And what draws me away :)

      [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      One more point:

      No. And we shouldn't breed out blackness either. Let asians come to Denmark and I promise you if we agree to compete, they wont stand a chance in Denmark. However let danes go to Africa and we wont outcompete Africans at least not unless we completely manage to change the environment in Africa to suit our genetics and evolution.

      Every race has the right to exist and we need to protect every race.

      I agree, I'm not out to go conquer anyone, I don't like that. I'd rather be friends, and I don't really see any reason not to be, just each in our own homelands.

      I disagree that we can simply rely on locally adapted genetics to protect each race. The history of earth is full of species getting replaced in their native ranges by other species. I think this puts whites in a position of false confidence which can be exploited, as it does any other race. We have to actually hold onto our territory if we want a place to exist, I don't think it's just going to happen automatically.

      [–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I think this puts whites in a position of false confidence which can be exploited, as it does any other race. We have to actually hold onto our territory if we want a place to exist, I don't think it's just going to happen automatically.

      Agreed. This is why I substantiated it with "if we agree to compete".