Right-wing & BLM protesters face off in London, police intervene (VIDEOS)

submitted by magnora7 from rt.com

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[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I think we should support the wealthiest, most successful, most savvy, most powerful of us. If they're a criminal, we should treat them as a criminal like any other criminal. If they're not, then we shouldn't treat them like one just for having power. I think it's wrong to demonize success like this, it makes people feel bad for having power or money or success or any other connection to "elite"ness when they haven't done anything wrong, and have usually done something right to get there. It's better to be more powerful, ceterus paribus. It feels like demonizing success, and I think it's wrong. I don't think we would accept it for any other group, and I think it's used to DnC ethnic groups that could/should be sticking together supporting each other across class.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I don't demonize success. I demonize people who steal from others to benefit themselves, and impoverish entire nations to become billionaires. I care more about the middle class than lining a billionaire's pockets. If the billionaires work with the middle class and help them, great. Instead 90% of them are essentially stealing the labor of those they're gaining their fortunes from.

That's why all these companies use 3rd world labor.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It's just that you here (and many others elsewhere) tend to talk about "elites," "rich," etc. Not "exploiters," "criminals," "abusers," "scammers," etc. (who come in all wealth brackets). It seems like you are asserting that all billionaires are bad people just because they're currently billionaires. It doesn't seem right. And it does seem like what people mean when they talk about demonization. Black men in the US commit a hugely disproportionate amount of the time and genuinely do cause problems for other people in aggregate, yet you removed subs dedicated to exposing that part of reality. How is the way you (and others) talk about "elites" or "rich" any different? It doesn't seem like it to me.

If you're genuinely against exploiters it might help to use language that refers to that and that alone, rather than language that references wealth or influence and implies necessary exploitation associated with that.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Yes I am against the worst exploiters. And those with the most power to exploit, are those with the most money. I'm not talking millionaires here. I'm talking billionaires.

[–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

But the problem isn't that they're billionaires, it's that they're exploiters, right? And that they're causing a lot of harm because they're doing it at a large scale? Presumably one doesn't need to have billions to cause a lot of harm, like gang leaders or drug traffickers or human traffickers.

And there's nothing wrong with having an impact on a large scale, or with having money, unless you're doing something bad with it.

It just leads to a huge amount of stigmatization of wealth, success, influence, power, etc when people go around talking about it that way (just like stigma associated with other groups). Which leads people to avoid acquiring these things, or to experience psychological harm and social harm if they do. And it leads to needless divisions between people when we use this language to divide them into class-groups like this, when we should be sticking together and helping each other. I think we can experience improvements in the way we talk about these things.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Right the fact they're exploiters is the key part. However I think being an exploiter and being a billionaire so often go hand-in-hand it's almost a rule, with a few exceptions. Like Jesus said "It's more difficult for a rich man to pass in to the kingdom of heaven than it is for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle."

[–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

But then you are stigmatizing wealth inappropriately, whether earned honestly or not. It doesn't seem any more right to me than stigmatizing (or spreading hate) about any other group.

I've seen ex-Christians specifically struggling with an inability to manage their finances and take proper care of themselves because of that exact attitude. People with wealth are very vulnerable to exploitation, it's like how you suddenly find out about a lot of new relatives if you win the lottery. Exploiting and stigmatizing people with wealth is wrong too, they don't stop being people you have to treat well, just like everyone else, just because they experience more financial success than others.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

It doesn't seem any more right to me than stigmatizing (or spreading hate) about any other group.

Really? Being against people controlling literally hundreds of millions of other people through money, is no different than disliking any other group?

Being irritated with the king because he stole from everyone is the same as hating a peasant? I don't think so.

[–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

ok, so you don't want people to be able to have a lot of money. you want some kind of wealth cap? it's not "control" if people can opt out.

it sounds like the thing you don't like is having lots of money.

and no, it's not "because he stole from everyone," but "just because he is the king". Yes, that's bad in the same way as hating someone just because they are a peasant is bad. They're both people. They both deserve the same respect, kindness, forgiveness, compassion, humanization, that all people deserve. Stigmatizing them and spreading hate about them regardless as to whether they've done anything wrong ("exploit" or "be lazy") is wrong in the same way.

[–]magnora7[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

it's not "because he stole from everyone,"

Yes it literally is exactly why I am upset with them. I told you why. Don't put false words in my mouth please.

I have no problem with people getting rich. I have a problem with people covertly stealing from others on a mass scale, and using leverage to depress the middle class. You know, like what has happened in America over the last 40 years, as the middle class dwindles away and we have more billionaires than ever