FBI raids Maralago (Trumps home)

submitted by Rob3122 from self.politics

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[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I just repeated what you and your source said, but sticking to just the facts.

It's basically just what you said stated in a less deceptive way, without forgone conclusions and gaslighting assumptions.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Ohh. Nuclear secrets it turns out. The first people executed for espionage in peace time in the US were moving nuclear secrets to the USSR.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg

I wonder who Trump was talking to that he refused to return the documents. He's quite the fan of Putin isn't he?

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

They simply said they were looking for classified documents, of which the most concerning would be nuclear secrets. The media spun that into the deceptive click-bait headline that "they were looking for stolen nuclear secrets."

It is pretty clear already that they did not find any, nor any classified material, nor anything very concerning.

They plan on releasing the entire warrant and list of taken items soon, thanks to the DOJ petition, as the DOJ is has been made to look like corrupt fools by the media spins (and their own unprecedented screw ups in the execution of this).

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

They simply said they were looking for classified documents, of which the most concerning would be nuclear secrets. The media spun that into the deceptive click-bait headline that "they were looking for stolen nuclear secrets."

The Washington Post cited people familiar with the investigation as saying nuclear weapons documents were thought to be in the trove the FBI was hunting in Trump’s Mar-a-Lago resort.

It is pretty clear already that they did not find any, nor any classified material, nor anything very concerning.

What? How can you possibly claim that that's "pretty clear"?

They plan on releasing the entire warrant and list of taken items soon, thanks to the DOJ petition, as the DOJ is has been made to look like corrupt fools by the media spins (and their own unprecedented screw ups in the execution of this).

Trump has the warrant and list of times taken. If it helps his case, he would have released it already. He hasn't. So it looks bad for him.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

The Washington Post cited unnamed people trying to exaggerate. I don't think we'll find anything about nuclear secrets in the warrant affidavit.

What? How can you possibly claim that that's "pretty clear"?

Because we already knew some about what was recovered. It was just lame stuff they already knew was there, when they visited in mid-July and looked at it. They told Trump to put a bigger padlock on it.

Trump has the warrant and list of times taken.

Trump had lobbied them to release the warrant. He backtracked on calling for the list of items to be released. I don't think he had or was permitted to release either without the court's approval, but neither are important and both are a misdirection, when you are familiar with these kinds of investigations.....

Only the affidavit for the warrant will have anything useful. The warrant its self will be vague and boring.

There will be two lists of items taken, the lame one given to Trump's attorney, after they snuck and did this with zero oversight, even hiding from the local police. That list will basically say "boxes of papers". It is reported that golf balls and a rain coat were also taken. There will be a usefully detailed list generated by the court days after the watergate-esk raid.

We have to remember this is just about getting old junk to the national archives for display and finishing sorting through boxes of papers to ensure no confidential stuff is left, which they knew was there and were okay with last month, when assessing its security.

[–]ActuallyNot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Because we already knew some about what was recovered. It was just lame stuff they already knew was there, when they visited in mid-July and looked at it.

The receipt had top secret documents, and SCI top secret documents. SCI (Sensitive compartmented information) is not supposed to be moved from the SCI facility, nor discussed outside it.

The same document shows that the search warrant was executed on suspicion of espionage, in addition to other crimes.

They told Trump to put a bigger padlock on it.

No they told him to put a lock on it. That bicycle lock was what he put there. It was in an unlocked room for a year.

Trump had lobbied them to release the warrant.

Trump was the only one who could have released the warrant. He didn't need to lobby. He just needed to release it.

I don't think he had or was permitted to release either without the court's approval, but neither are important and both are a misdirection, when you are familiar with these kinds of investigations.....

It's released now, as you can see from my link. He can release both without court's approval. The FBI and DOJ are the ones that need the courts approval to release it.

That list will basically say "boxes of papers".

Yes. But it includes their security classification, and the top secret boxes are of grave concern. The fact that there are SCI documents there is beyond "grave concern".

It is reported that golf balls and a rain coat were also taken.

Those aren't on the receipt.

We have to remember this is just about getting old junk to the national archives

Nope. Top secret documents, including Sensitive compartmented information.

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

The receipt had top secret documents,

Hasn't that been corrected already to be "formerly" secret documents, which were declassified?

No they told him to put a lock on it.

Yes, they told him to secure it better, because they new there were boxers of documents not yet sifted through, likely with classified data. They were aware of it, okay with it, and instructed him to keep it there and further secure it.

We have to remember this is just about getting old junk to the national archives. We also have to remember that everyone knew and was okay with there being some possible classified documents here.

We have to remember that most of them were declassified and the media will pretend they were still classified. This is the opposite trick they used to minimize Hillary's much more serious issue (her's leaked to foreign governments, instead of collecting mold in a basement).

It is reported that golf balls and a rain coat were also taken.

Those aren't on the receipt.

Like I told you, the lame receipt just says a count of boxes.

Source about those findings: https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/11/us/politics/trump-fbi-subpoena.html

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Hasn't that been corrected already to be "formerly" secret documents, which were declassified?

Nope. Declassification is a process. These documents are top secret. It says on the receipt.

They were aware of it, okay with it, and instructed him to keep it there and further secure it.

They were not "okay with it." They pursued "less invasive means" of recovering them before going through the process of getting the warrant.

We have to remember this is just about getting old junk to the national archives.

Nope. Top secret including SCI documents recovered under a search warrant for evidence of crimes including espionage.

Like I told you, the lame receipt just says a count of boxes.

So it does. My bad. I assumed boxes of documents.

tbh, I still do. Not sure how a golf ball is evidence of espionage or destruction or falsification of records in federal investigations.

The coat could be evidence of someone having access to the top secret documents, I suppose. Was it a Russian's coat with 6 passports of different nationalities in the pockets?

[–]SoCo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Nope. Declassification is a process. These documents are top secret. It says on the receipt.

Sorry, you are wrong about this. This was heavily reported after some information came out. Guessing based on a receipt seems a willful misdirection.

They were not "okay with it." They pursued "less invasive means" of recovering them before going through the process of getting the warrant.

No, you are wrong about this too. They visited in mid-Jully and told him to improve the lock.

Nope. Top secret including SCI documents recovered under a search warrant for evidence of crimes including espionage.

No, the warrant is just boiler plate looking for lost confidential documents. It can be deceptively characterized about all the scary things that could entail, but this was just the National Archive wanting their schwag to show in the museum......which is why they took the golf ball and rain coat...because this was NEVER about espionage or destruction of record. That was pure and super obvious media gaslighting. They take a normal thing, like not processing documents fast enough, for the national archive, and gasslight you with projected nefarious motive of concealing evidence to non-existent crimes. The ignorant masses will need to smarten up as this one trick of gaslighting seems to work every time.

[–]ActuallyNot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Sorry, you are wrong about this.

Nope. Lawfare has a detailed post about the declassification process, and the circumstances under which it is legal: The Classification Status of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago Documents.

As per Richard Immerman “The procedure is far more formal,” said Immerman, who is now a historian at Temple University. “Documents must be declassified page by page; in fact, if TS/SCI [Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmented Information] line by line. The document then is marked declassified (often sanitized) by the authorizing agent along with the date. Consequently, former President Trump’s claim is to me implausible.”

No, you are wrong about this too. They visited in mid-Jully and told him to improve the lock.

1) Nope, they told him to put a lock on it. That shitty little bicycle lock that you've seem pictures of was what was put on the room after that.

2) Asking him to put a lock on it, does not mean that they didn't also try to get the documents back without a search warrant. And in fact it is on the record that they did.

No, the warrant is just boiler plate looking for lost confidential documents.

Nope, that's not what a search warrant is. You need "probable cause" of a crime. In this case those three crimes mentioned on the warrant. Given that they are out of sequential order, you will suspect, as I do, that there was some toing and froing with the crimes to be investigated.

It can be deceptively characterized about all the scary things that could entail, but this was just the National Archive wanting their schwag to show in the museum......which is why they took the golf ball and rain coat...because this was NEVER about espionage or destruction of record.

All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, [...]

That's espionage.