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[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

I clearly understand English, but I'm not so sure you understand rights, or protests, or the "social contract" that is the only reason authoritarians have power in the first place

[–][deleted]  (12 children)

[removed]

    [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

    He dragged it lower. I addressed the topic at hand, instead of relying entirely on one ridiculous one-liner that completely side-steps the argument. So pester him about the pyramid violations, not me

    [–][deleted]  (10 children)

    [removed]

      [–]magnora7 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      Yes OWS had serious problems, they never actually occupied wall street, so it never hit the aristocracy in their pocketbook, so they had no real bargaining leverage, so the protests were destined to eventually fail.

      [–]bobbobbybob 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

      your political naivete is showing.

      Kids playing games in the sandbox that far more sinister forces created to gain/consolidate power

      [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      you say that like chaz is going to have any significant effect other than as a media narrative to make everyone protesting look stupid

      [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      Its morale building for the troops. training for the next step.

      The liberal whites are props.

      EDIT.

      All those diverse types will go back to their lives full of a very different attitude and potential

      [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      Morale building, implying that this chaz thing will succeed or be long-lived in any way. I imagine the camp will be basically abandoned in 3-6 months or so. But you may be correct.

      [–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      each person there will have new contempt for whites, a new sense of power, and will have new skills in coordinating disruption.

      [–]Lithargoel 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Why didn't you lead with this reply to beermeem instead of the "keen to spit on people" remark? Deleting his the above two replies to you so we only have YOUR narrative of his alleged falling down your Pyramid is shady, at best.

      edited: for clarification

      [–]beermeem 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

      The concept of a social contract was popularized by Jean-Jacques Rousseau prior to the American Revolutionary War. In many ways, it gave moral standing to the creation of the United States of America, as well as the Jacobin terror and French Revolution that followed. The European socialist uprisings of 1848 also owe many of their intellectual underpinnings to Rousseau's social contract concept which holds that the rules of the state are binding only to the extent that they express the will of the governed. Abraham Lincoln echoed many of these concepts as he campaigned to end slavery and hold the Union together.

      However, there are many criticisms to this concept, not the least of which being that it boils down to little more than a truism. One could argue that it's based off another concept of French intellectualism, "noblesse oblige" or the obligation of the noble class to be generous toward those of lesser means. In this way, it is both condescending and demeaning. While it sounds pretty to girls and liberals, the fact is that it holds little weight in the real world. One need look no further than to the violent uprisings that swore by it to see that it is force and wealth that enforce these "freedoms" and not the other way around.

      Especially when looked at in light of millennia of Japanese, Chinese, and Indian political, cultural, and religious concepts, Rousseau's concepts are child-like, barely a blip on the radar of human achievements. Rousseau is a hope that leaves for wanting. Even Thoreau's Civil Disobedience -- which espouses the need to prioritize conscience over law -- has a more tangible grasp on the realities of governance and the individual.

      In fact, Rousseau's "social contract" is often used to enforce government control, whereas Thoreau's "Resistance to Civil Government" (1849) is truly a revolutionary concept founded on freedom. What is most interesting, though, is that Rousseau is of a time when authors wrote of Utopias. Nearly all conceptual literature prior to the revolutions of 1848 described Utopias (such as Sir Thomas More), theoretical places where people made rules that were fair and just and kept society happy. Following 1848, literature turned and wrote almost exclusively of distopias -- places where the rules of humans failed and the world felt more chaotic. It's quite certain that Rousseau's concept of a social contract held little real sway after this point in history, though some still cling to it as backing for their socialist tendencies.

      To say this all another way, I'll quote Wittgenstein's "On Certainty," paragraph 315, in part:

      It would be as if someone were looking for some object in a room; he opens a drawer and doesn't see it there; then he closes it again, waits, and opens it once more to see if perhaps it isn't there now, and keeps on like that. He has not learned to look for things. And in the same way this pupil has not learned how to ask questions.

      You do a great job on the technical side of things with this website and I truly appreciate that. But I'll walk up and down your little "pyramid" all day.

      [–]magnora7 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

      I appreciate the thoughtful reply!

      One could argue that it's based off another concept of French intellectualism, "noblesse oblige" or the obligation of the noble class to be generous toward those of lesser means. In this way, it is both condescending and demeaning.

      I think that's a misinterpretation of what "the social contract" means. It's not a matter of guilt, nor a matter of helping.

      It's a matter of bargaining. The people let those in power remain in power, because they give enough good to the populace to justify the other negative aspects that come with such a huge power structure.

      The moment the people aren't getting a fair shake, and that sentiment begins to form, unrest is sparked.

      Giving power to the people is the only way they can retain power without the populace protesting and then rioting to the point they're replaced with a different leader who is more fair.

      It's a matter of leverage and power retention that shows again and again throughout history. The people must be given bread and circus, a reasonable quality of life, or they revolt against the existing power structure. That pressure is "the social contract"

      [–]beermeem 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

      Right now, you're reminding me of Osho's people who came to America thinking the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were things that were enforced literally here in the States. You're describing "a" social contract, a truism of governance, however you're entirely missing the context of "the" social contract. That's why I said you don't understand english.

      Your descriptor could be dated all the way back at least to the signing of the Magna Carta in 1215, when the merchant class forced King John to codify their rights, lest they pull the plug on England's burgeoning commerce. (Or even further back, really. Probably to at least the Code of Hammurabi.) They achieved wealth separate from the Crown and used that wealth to enforce a codification of their rights.

      "The" Social Contract did not come about until much later. It is liberalism's response to its murdering of God and a humanity ruled by its spiritual nature. Whereas (Western) people had been ruled by the fear of god or gods, debasement of those musings necessitated the installation of a new framework -- worship of government. As Locke asserts, no longer was family tied by nature but by social agreement. The very formation of "the" social contract is socialist in nature.

      So when you go around talking about "the" social contract, it means one thing in your head but its context is entirely different to most people's understanding. And herein lies the true difference between modern Liberals and Conservatives. Liberals look at society and see a social contract. They look at government and see something that rules them at their own will and for their own good. Conservatives look at "government" and simply see people. Fallible people who must be used to one's own ends or simply worked around. Liberals still live in a pre-1848 world where they think government will one day bring them a utopia. They keep thinking -- just a couple more laws. Over that next hill. We just need to perfect the government, the contract we have with each other, and then we'll have legislated peace on Earth and free healthcare for all.

      Modern American Libertarians and most Conservatives as well as most Eastern religions remain much more rooted in the spiritual nature of humanity so they retain an intrinsic trust not just in one another but also in their own experience. Liberalism's attempt to rule by intellectualism has died and CHOP is the proof. That's why I say, there is no longer "The" Social Contract.

      I think that's a misinterpretation of what "the social contract" means. It's not a matter of guilt, nor a matter of helping.

      Conceptually speaking, it's literally where Rousseau and Locke got the idea. They just flipped it on its head.

      [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      "The" Social Contract did not come about until much later.

      I'm not talking about an actual contract, or a specific philosophical concept put froward by one person. I am talking about the human behavior that is thousands of years old, a relationship between the rulers and the ruled that is as old as history itself. We can call it by any other name, but this is what I refer to when I use the words "The social contract". We can call it something else if you prefer, but the dynamic itself is very core to the relationship between the rulers and the ruled, and largely dictates the rhythm of history, and the rise and fall of revolutions and empires.

      [–]beermeem 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

      Yes. And that's an extremely simplistic view of the world, which is generally put forward by socialists who think people can solve government can solve problems.

      [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

      Simplistic? It perfectly describes the cause-and-effect of reality. Sounds like you just don't like the conclusion. It describes almost every revolution in history.

      [–]beermeem 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      Please dude. Don't let your ego get in the way of the amazing thing you have created.

      Take a step back and look at your accomplishments.

      You are a good man. I dunno. Are you a man? Just had to ask since Today.z

      Chill, bro. Don't put your opinion where your Dick is.

      [–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Also, there is tacit contracting. Meaning, if you say nothing, it means yes, even if we do it without you knowing as long as you don't know until you die.