The FBI Basically Admits they Orchestrated January 6th for Political Gain and to Use Against Trump.

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[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

TBH, sounds like you just hate "maga people". I don't see that there would be anything to make you change your mind on 1/6, because probably there is nothing to be said that would change your mind about that group of people.

I watched them beat and kill cops, I watched them invade the capitol, and I watched them attempt to prevent the peaceful transfer of power.....I don't get why you think that I am unduly prejudiced against the 1000s of people who we both watched invade the capitol?

Yes, it was they who invaded the capitol, we watched them do it. You can now say: no, it was the establishment who invaded the capitol, it was the same people who lied about Vietnam who invaded the capitol (stone!), it was foreign governments who invaded the capitol....we have all watched long hi-res videos of exactly who dunnit. We have all heard trump and stone and Bannon tell people, to come to washington on the 6th....you can't seriously be telling me that all those pasty fatties were government agents?

Yes, it's called the U.S. government. I also mentioned Iraq, but I guess that is too recent for your rhetoric to work.

My point is that we can identify the liars - on the topic of Iraq, it was Alistair Campbell, scooter libby, the yellow cake lady.

All those people are gone.

[–]proc0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I watched it the same day as well. I see something different because I'm taking into account 4 years of hatred that was completely unjustified. The crowd got out of control but it's still extremely exaggerated because it's something that threatens the establishment politicians and supporters. The claim is not whether there was an angry crowd, but the intentions of that crowd and the claim that the system can be so easily overturned. Good discussion anyway.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I see something different

Okay, well, it's a very simple question.

You believe that (1) somehow the government stood down security in order to ruin trump's reputation.

So the question is: is it true or false that (2) there were thousands of trump supporters who were there at his invitation, who were very angry, and who beat cops and broke windows to force entry, who were trying to stop the electoral count.

Is that true or false? Because it seems to me, that you can hold both opinions: you can believe that (1) the government stood down security to smear trump, and you can also believe that (2) thousands of angry maga fans stormed the building to prevent the count.

It's possible to hold both in your head.

But you seem to be pushing back on (2), while you don't need to. You can still argue (1) while agreeing with me on (2). But if you're gonna deny (2) then you need to explain who, exactly, all those pasty people were.

[–]proc0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

They're both related! Would those thousands of people attempted to break in if there was an army of police outside? Would they have broken in if the police used some rubber bullets or anti-riot tactics? On top of that, they have been provoked because the establishment and the media never accepted Trump as president and never treated him with the respect of an elected president.

Those people were there doing that, but the narrative of why they did it and why it happened is the main reason why it's talked about. Riots and protests happened throughout the country and is nothing new. The narrative is trying to sell this is of 9/11 proportions because "muh democracy". That is at least questionable, yet that lands you on crazy conspiracy land... because obviously they don't want people to question it.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Would those thousands of people attempted to break in if there was an army of police outside? Would they have broken in if the police used some rubber bullets or anti-riot tactics? On top of that, they have been provoked

What a load of BS.

Provoked? Isn't every criminal!

Why weren't they shot? Why isn't every criminal!

You could literally excuse any crime under the sun. Rape? Well he only raped because nobody stopped him! It's the system's fault!

What a load of BS. The people who did it, who we watched do it, ARE responsible for doing it. How crazy that someone would go to all this trouble that you're going to - just to insist that the people who we watched do it, aren't responsible for doing it

[–]proc0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's besides the point. I'm not saying don't charge them or hold them accountable. I'm pointing at how the narrative is blown up to create fear, and promote hatred for Trump for political reasons. Every time I point at how this is a political tool you point at how people actually got angry and destroyed some property. Both things can be true. I could even grant that none of this was planned, and it was 100% the crowd's fault, however if you don't want to talk about provoking... then let's not blame Trump or anyone else for doing that. Either way, the establishment is exaggerating the event for political gains.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The people provoking the crowd were trump, Jones, stone, Bannon, Alexander and all that ilk.

The press being against trump is not provocation to storm the capitol. The Iraq war was not provocation to storm the capitol. Thinking that the elite would not like trump to win in 2024 is not provocation to storm the capitol.

Either way, the establishment is exaggerating the event for political gains.

Uh huh. So maybe the left storms the capitol to prevent Biden from losing power. And you'll have to refrain from exaggeration and not act like it's a 9/11 big deal, just live quietly without exaggeration in the new reality where each side gets to stage civic violence and set up guillotines every four years

[–]proc0 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If BLM/antifa storm the capitol on election results day, I can assure 100% I won't say it's a threat to democracy. If there are very few casualties and it's mostly a riot, it will be just that, a riot.