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[–]jamesK_3rd 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is a response for all the 2A naysayers and finger waggers.

Iit's an interesting topic. Because a small group of individuals took over and maintained several square blocks in the city of Seattle. They even renamed it, and they gracefully gave it back to the city of Seattle recently.

Portland did the same, except in Portland they also essentially had federal troops evicted from the area..

A group of Armed men held off government goons over cattle grazing rights in an area there as well.

Small tribal groups armed with weapons held off the Soviets for 30 years and then the mighty US Army for at least 20 more in Afghanistan.

People who have trouble understanding the second amendment generally have trouble understanding the constitution, the declaration of independence especially, free speech, freedom and free will, religion and God, and thinking abstractly or independently. Freedom is a difficult concept, and there are a lot of ppl who just can't understand it, so don't feel bad, you aren't alone. Throughout written history, those who understand the concepts above are few and far between, so consider yourselves in good and typical company. it's nothing to be ashamed of, but it's good to be aware of it.. As well, that doesn't mean you have to be a believer, but not being one directly limits your comprehension in the underlying values espoused in our founding documents.

The framers, as they stated in the DOI, started with the premise that all of us are made in the image of God and have inherent value. As such, your rights come from God, and that a government's first and foremost function is the protection of these rights, that the govt is instituted by men for securing these rights.

But Because men are inherently flawed and your rights come from God and not the government, you should have the right to stand for yourself when no one other man or men will, including the institution of government.. You have the right to defend your life, to the point you will take another life if necessary, even if it means losing your own and you are accountable for your actions both in this life to men, and to God.

The above is likely lost on you. That's not especially strange given our society now. If you're a moral relativist or religious atheist as with most people now, the above is not only unintuitive, it's arcane and savage. You are now a practitioner of the predominant religion and belief systems in the US. Under these, you likely believe men are inherently good and most if not all of societal ills are due to the lack of education, exposure to harmful ideas or beliefs when young, or a system that oppresses certain groups at the expense of another to name a few.

The idea for the 2A is that you can defend yourself and your family even if it costs your life. This is a bridge to far for believers in the dominant religion of today. Not just that, it's 20XX and society is far more civilized now. Furthermore, there are few if any arguments to be made that government, not God is the grantor of rights. For them, they can see the government but can't see God. And regardless of what we were as a society/country 100 years ago and all of the terrible flaws that existed then, i think we are much father away from the values of the DOI now than then.

This is one of the primary reasons for the attacks on the meanings of words, "what's a man/woman" was a great place to start. But for a society without a compass, ask people what's a "right". You'll now here answers such as, healthcare, equal pay, or same sex marriage.

It's true there are always those who'll isolate to their own demise. The wickedness of man has no bounds.

The second amendment isn't for a moral and just society, it's for the one that isn't. If enough government goons lose their lives doing 3AM no knock raids over traffic tickets or missed tax payments, they Will stop 3AM no knock raids or they'll start looking for ways to ensure that when they do the 3AM no knock raid, they removed your ability to defend yourself because of some arbitrary rule you broke, like say a red flag law.

Of course, it's cool as long as it's them. After all it's 2020. Spoken like city dwellers, the government will take care of you..

Ultimately, it's likely we are now a people made to be ruled.

[–]insta 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Iit's an interesting topic. Because a small group of individuals took over and maintained several square blocks in the city of Seattle. They even renamed it, and they gracefully gave it back to the city of Seattle recently.

They could've done it armed with water balloons and the results would've been the same. Please don't be foolish enough to take away from those events that "armed take overs work". Those were allowed to happen by sympathetic governments and weak/disenfranchised police unions. If people on the far-right tried the exact same thing in Arkansas they would be rolled on and crushed.

People who have trouble understanding the second amendment generally have trouble understanding the constitution

2A defenders always love to jump right into theoretical discussions about tyranny and freedom with nothing concrete to back it up. Outside of grazing rights for some rural workers gun owners have done little to nothing to stop the ever growing tyrannical gov't as of late. People like me who dismiss the 2A don't do it because I don't understand your theory, it's just that I never see if practiced and it seems like a whole bunch of hot air at this point. There's no reason for me to believe that a gun owner is going to shoot up the CPS worker who comes to take their child away for their required hormone therapy treatment, I just don't believe the gun owners. They're so full of shit.

The second amendment isn't for a moral and just society, it's for the one that isn't.

Order is more important than freedom. Guns are for a disorderly society, not just an immoral one. I feel like this is a big disconnect for people like you and I. I don't value freedom the same way you do. Freedom as many Westerners know it is a nice by-product of having a highly orderly and functional society. Freedom doesn't mean jack if you're society is crumbling.