What is the most sober, accurate account of what happened in the Holocaust?

submitted by quickthrowaway from (self.debatealtright)

Recently, I've been trying to find what actually happened in the Holocaust. But, information is insanely conflicting and scattered on the internet.

I've looked at David Cole, David Irving, random internet searches, but it's so hard to just get a clear-cut and sober analysis of what really happened.

So, does anyone have a straight-forward summary in your view of what happened. I guess I'd be most curious about how many Jews died, whether it was intentional or to what extent there was genocidal intent, and how it happened.

Sources are good, but just a straight up summary is better.

Thanks.

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[–]raven9 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There is a report by the Red Cross from the time that declared the holocaust death toll was 271,000. There was/is a yearly publication called the Jewish Almanac that published an estimate each year of the worlds population of Jews going back to the 1800s. If you examined the prewar numbers and compared them with the post war numbers you could clearly see in the 1930s there was around 15 million Jews and there was still over 15 million Jews in 1948. http://www.gregfelton.com/movies/2017_02_26%20Jewish%20population%20increase.gif

You can also see here in the World Almanac from 1933 showed Jewish Population by country there was only 500,000 Jews in Germany to begin with. https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Xpk2155OMQY/UTttBEbMlGI/AAAAAAAAQOQ/wacfqk2XPXo/s1600/ALMANAC+JEWISH+POPULATION+1939+-+15.7MIL.JPG

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

  • No evidence of any intentional extermination program whatsoever
  • Evidence shows that Germans did everything in their power to limit camp deaths
  • Up to one million Jews died of all causes, mainly disease and starvation, also fighting for the Soviet Union

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

America wouldn't give Germany the typhus vaccine they requested too, so most jewish deaths are the fault of the allies.

[–]jet199 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Completely ignoring all the deaths from shooting before the camps were even put into use.

Over a million shot in the Ukraine alone (mostly by Ukrainians on German orders to be fair).

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20210929-the-first-major-massacre-in-the-holocaust-by-bullets-babi-yar-80-years-on

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

fake and gay

[–]shilldetector 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What do you think was the total death toll of the holocaust?

[–]quickthrowaway[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What was the Germans' ultimate plan in putting the Jews in camps? What were they planning to do with the Jews if they won the war?

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

The "Final Solution" was the deportation of the Jews from the whole of Europe. They would be relocated to another territory under SS administration. Palestine and Madagascar were the most-discussed candidates, but other locations have been proposed, including Uganda and Patagonia.

[–]quickthrowaway[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So the plan was to win the war (defeating the Soviet Union and Britain), and then afterwards finalize their plan to move the Jews to a particular location (but they didn't know exactly where yet)?

[–]douglas_waltersWhite Supremacist 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, Mosley in 'The Alternative' which was published post-WW2, suggested Palestine and Abyssinia (now Ethiopia) to be the adoptive home of the Jews.

The "Final Solution" to European disharmony was the removal of divisive, parasitic elements from Europe.

[–]JasonCarswellVoluntaryist 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

/s/conspiracy/comments/8y8r/holohoax_deprogramming_course/

/s/debatealtright/comments/8xj5/compilation_of_holocaust_denial_arguments_and_how/

https://www.BitChute.com/search/?query=Spinning+Squirrel

https://InfoGalactic.com/info/Truther_Top_20_Counter_Points_To_The_Official_Holocaust_Story

[–]mongre 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://thegreateststorynevertold.tv/

[–]send_nasty_stuffNational Socialist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Great doc but that's more focused on Hitler. Less on the holohoax.

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Codoh, Ihr, holocaust handbooks

Germar Rudolf on TDS

Fred Leuchter on Strike and Mike

If you search 'Ernst Zundel', 'Germar Rudolf', or anything to do with holocaust etc on therightstuff.biz's search bar you can find a bunch more podcasts that discuss the holocaust. There's also appearances on 'our interesting times' by Tim Kelly where Mike and Striker have appeared and they often discuss specific things about the holocaust. There's a good one of Striker about the Mengele book where they debunk a lot of nonsense about Mengele for example.

[–]asterias 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Comparatively to the toll paid by others, the Jews were just some collateral damage, especially in light of the attrocities they had committed only a few years before (genocide in Anatolia, Holodomor in Ukraine and so on).

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Depends what you're interested in really, Holocaust is very broad topic if you want to dive into details. For example, if you want to study just mechanisms of gas chamber, or open air incinerations, or Sonnerkommandos, there are whole books about those topics. Carlo Mattogno, who is the most well-versed Holocaust academic, goes camp by camp and examines the details, for example.

Debating the Holocaust by Thomas Dalton is a great starting point if you're into books and if you're interested in the overall Holocaust story, and if you prefer something more beginner-friendly content I'd highly recommend this. This channel has lots of Fact Check videos on it, all of them are worth watching, but this one is the most interesting imo.

[–]quickthrowaway[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Thanks. I'll try to check some of that stuff out. Can I ask though, for your basic view? Just like a quick summary before I try to dive into all of the different sources. Basically, how many Jews died? Was there genocidal intent? How did it happen?

Although if you don't have the time to get into it I understand.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I believe there are many inconsistencies with the official stories, and logistics of it would be very difficult to pull. Holocaust theorists will often pull at the straws there they try to explain mere theoretical possibility of an event.

I believe 300k jews died, mostly due to typhus epidemic that was going on, and that there was no order to industrially execute jews en masse. I said mostly because there were thousands of jews which were executed for one reason or the other (which was documented by the Germans, without any euphemisms).

I love going into details of these camps (I'm most familiar with Auschwitz because it's the main one and the most important one), but also on some part it doesn't even matter, Holocaust matters politically rather than historically far more, since it's been used to silence free speech, political opponents, commit actual mass-scale crimes against humanity, wars, etc.

[–]quickthrowaway[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Is there a general consensus about the holocaust among revisionists? It seems like when I look around, there's just a variety of questionings and doubts, but no official counter-narrative that is offered. It almost makes me doubt the Holocaust revisionists, although I don't doubt from all the other red-pills I've swallowed that things were exaggerated.

Do you think the lack of definite counter-narrative is evidence that people are being overly "denying" of the Holocaust? Or that it's just really hard to figure out what actually happened (because of the combination of censorship, and the fact that it's hard to figure out the truth of something from 75 years ago?)

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What I said is general consensus.

If you want to see what a doubt is, you should look into historical holocaust numbers. For example, estimates of death count in Majdanek camp are as follows

  • Initial claim by Soviets - 2 million
  • 1944 - 1.7 million
  • Nuremberg trials - 1.5 million
  • 1975 - 1.38 million
  • 1991 - 360 thousand
  • 1992 - 235 thousand
  • 1998 revisionist claims - 42 thousand
  • 2005-present - 78 thousand

Auschwitz also famously went from 4 million to 1.1 million.

These are just numbers, there were many egregious claims about the methods of executions. The more you dig into it, the more ridiculous it gets. Most recent example I found was bone-crushing machine which was allegedly used for getting rid of evidence of Holocaust, yet the actual purpose of it was refining cement (but they always use these annotations and sell you complex stories when truth is simple and reasonable in actuality).

[–]neomarxist_bullshit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

lots of "accurate" accounts here