all 13 comments

[–]hennaojisan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

You can see children eating garbage in many countries including the US.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Seems like propaganda. The "reporter" was likely a CIA infiltrator.

[–]hennaojisan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, yes, yes. Are we really going to start a war with a banana/oil republic again? If you live long enough it just sounds like the same old song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yzLT6_TQmq8

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A++ Truther Music !

[–]HibikiBlack[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

facepalm

Dude, seriously, even when Chavez was still alive, it was hard finding things like milk and sugar...

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Under Chavez poverty went from 70% to 20%.

There is still a hellova lotta poverty left, but without Chavez it would have been worse.

[–]HibikiBlack[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That was done through artificial means, people became too reliant on whatever the government gave them. Like I said, back when he was still alive it was already hard finding certain things and keep in mind that him and his family went insanely rich, don't start this man, I don't wanna see you as a socialist apologist of all people...

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Oh, come on. Every society and culture is "artificial" and ALL of them are rigged in favour of the powerful to make them more powerful rather than being fair and elevating everyone together. Every government regardless of their classification is run by Machiavellian manipulators and murderous exploiters.

Guess why it was difficult for Venezuela, before, during, and after Chavez - the globalist exploiters, lead by the US, with their sanctions, etc. If there was a legitimately free market they'd have access to the toilet paper, medicine, or whatever the elites control.

I am not a socialist puppet NOR a capitalist puppet. There are pros and cons to both and balance is necessary. As far as I'm concerned ALL big government is evil. When it comes to smaller government (ie. city and smaller) I lean waaay left - but not the Insane-Bullshit-Corporate-Manufactured-SJW-Left, which isn't really left nor even pro-peace.

As an apparent capitalist, how can you demonize socialist Chavez for being rich and ignore the other rich capitalist elites trying to overthrow that country? You gotta see the hypocrisy and recognize socialism has a lot of benefits as well as evil uses - it's just a tool, not an evil. The US military, the government, police, prisons, firemen, schools, roads, etc is PURE socialism, funded by all citizens whether they like it or not, to benefit all - or not. All obscenely rich folks are the greatest evils I know of, and when it comes to comparing them, Chavez is clearly the lesser of the evils because he helped the poorest in his country rather than his fellow elites. American elites won't even fix the Big Pharma raping much less apply universal health care (not to mention the perpetual-sickness vs cure mentality) to relieve the overwhelming suffering. How can you prefer more suffering under this capitalism? (Not even counting "humanitarian aid" and bombs.)

[–]HibikiBlack[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You have a point with both the capitalist and socialist labels being convenient monikers for the elites, but seriously dude, painting Chavez as a hero is insane. A lot of the problems Venezuela suffered before Chavez were caused by the communists themselves, I have to mention the bapthist godfather of Chavez, Caldera, causing a banking crisis on purpose, for example. Also, I honestly don't see how your accusations against the US have any basis, the crisis of the country was caused by the socialists themselves. Like I said, in the final years of Chavez, it was already hard finding things like milk and sugar. Here is a list of the US sanctions:

https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/

They have focused on freezing the bank accounts the socialists have in the US itself and taking over their properties.

So no, when it comes to choosing the lesser of the two evils, the Venezuelan opposition is the lesser evil no matter how you look at it. Also, those that tell you Venezuela didn't work before Chavez are lying, corruption eventually became bad, but at least the country was quickly recovering with Carlos Andres in the early 90's.

Back at the end of Raul Leoni's term, Venezuela had a lot of first world infrastructure. Security over here was even better than the US. The people who worked in the oil industry were better paid over here than the freaking US too. This was the result of true nationalist presidents, Betancourt and Raul Leoni.

So quit your populist whining already, spreading that shitty dysinfo everywhere is helping really evil people get away with their crimes. And I don't hope the opposition to truly fix things, I'll do that myself once I become Caudillo and turn Venezuela into a true power house, I just see them as the lesser evil for now.

I feel like I'm talking to a 13 year old who has just discovered anime or something, LMAO how embarrassing...

[–]fred_red_beans 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You have a point with both the capitalist and socialist labels being convenient monikers for the elites, but seriously dude, painting Chavez as a hero is insane.

How is stating one statistic that poverty fell from 70% to 20% painting Chavez as a hero?

A lot of the problems Venezuela suffered before Chavez were caused by the communists themselves, I have to mention the bapthist godfather of Chavez, Caldera, causing a banking crisis on purpose, for example. Also, I honestly don't see how your accusations against the US have any basis, the crisis of the country was caused by the socialists themselves. Like I said, in the final years of Chavez, it was already hard finding things like milk and sugar.

Venezuela certainly has had economic problems. Do you have any references? Such as Caldera causing a banking crisis?

Here is basis for criticism against the US actions: US Sanctions Cost Venezuela $6B Since August 2017, Sparking Humanitarian Catastrophe

Here is a list of the US sanctions: https://www.state.gov/e/eb/tfs/spi/venezuela/ They have focused on freezing the bank accounts the socialists have in the US itself and taking over their properties.

What does US sanctions against the regime they want to dispose prove? That the US dislikes the same government that you dislike?

So no, when it comes to choosing the lesser of the two evils, the Venezuelan opposition is the lesser evil no matter how you look at it.

That's fine, in your opinion.

Also, those that tell you Venezuela didn't work before Chavez are lying, corruption eventually became bad, but at least the country was quickly recovering with Carlos Andres in the early 90's.

Again, any references?

Back at the end of Raul Leoni's term, Venezuela had a lot of first world infrastructure. Security over here was even better than the US. The people who worked in the oil industry were better paid over here than the freaking US too. This was the result of true nationalist presidents, Betancourt and Raul Leoni.

Any references would be nice.

So quit your populist whining already, spreading that shitty dysinfo everywhere is helping really evil people get away with their crimes.

Characterizing comments as whining and shitty are just personal attacks. If you have information counter to the information, by all means, post it. Your personal attacks are unwarranted and in my opinion disruptive. I see a lot of assertions from you with no references or facts to back them up.

And I don't hope the opposition to truly fix things, I'll do that myself once I become Caudillo and turn Venezuela into a true power house, I just see them as the lesser evil for now.

OK, Caudillo:

A caudillo was a type of personalist leader wielding military and political power. There is no precise definition of caudillo, which is often used interchangeably with "dictator" and "strongman". The term is historically associated with Spain, and with Spanish America after virtually all of that region won independence in the early nineteenth century. The term is often used pejoratively by critics of a regime.

If you are stating that you are going to become a military strongman and take over leadership of Venezuela, do you realize how that could sound ridiculous to people?

I feel like I'm talking to a 13 year old who has just discovered anime or something, LMAO how embarrassing...

Again, another personal attack. All this proves is that you can be a dick and drags down the discussion.

If you have information with references, I'd be interested in seeing it. If you can only provide information on the basis that you are an authority, I'm not going to buy it. While you may live in Venezuela, there are many people here who live in the US who have no clue and call themselves an authority. An anonymous poster on the internet simply stating he is an authority leads no credence to anything they have to say in my opinion.

If you have to resort to personal attacks, perhaps you are reaching and may want to reevaluate your argument.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"Video From Venezuelan Supermarket Exposes CNN Lies" by The Jimmy Dore Show (2019-02-28) /s/Venezuela/comments/edk/video_from_venezuelan_supermarket_exposes_cnn/

I never painted Chavez as a hero. But you can't deny that under him things improved and "they" wanted him gone. I and others suspect he was poisoned.

All Machiavellian politicians (so very rare few are not) all cause and/or exploit crises on purpose to play disaster capitalism off disaster socialism to reach their desired results. action thesis + reaction antithesis = synthesized results

What are the sanctions for? They don't help the people - at all. The people get pissed and demand change. The sanctions are designed to make people want to change from socialism and their best interests to something else... only one thing, capitalism. It's market and economic warfare.

The sanctions don't prove that socialism is bad. The sanctions prove that capitalists are evil motherfuckers who will deprive a whole nation of goods and medicine to bring about a revolution in government.

How am I whining?

How am I a populist?

What "shitty disinfo" was I spreading?

Venezuela may have the most oil but it has little chance of becoming a powerhouse for good. It might be able to resist the west like Iran or it may embrace radicalism like Saudi Arabia. Venezuela is cursed with too many natural resources and has a target on its back, its head, and over its heart.

I feel like I'm talking to a 13 year old who has just discovered politics or something, LMAO how embarrassing they can't see through the propaganda...

[–]HibikiBlack[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Venezuela was already a powerhouse in the 60-70s do your research. It will be the greatest once I reach presidency. No one can stop me.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Except yourself.

Mr. Pre-President, I don't know why you insist on debating socialist idiots on SaidIt.net when you could be strategizing your victorious political campaign, solving the country's problems, and feeding the hungry not-garbage.