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[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Matt Walsh opposes one form of child genital mutilation, but supports another. I was pointing out his hypocrisy.

When someone holds a rally to promote a particular view of theirs, I think it's fair to question why that person also espouses a contradictory view on a similar subject.

I don't want children to be transed or circumcised.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

Purity spirals start this way. Comparing infant male circumcision with childhood gender transitions is so retarded because the effects of the later so far exceed the effects of the former we aren't even in the same solar system when it comes to the magnitude of the future consequences.

People can rightly hold logical viewpoints on things while also holding other seemingly contradictory opinions, is it hypocritical. Perhaps. But in their own mind that isn't necessarily the case. We shouldn't allow the kind of all encompassing ideological basis to dictate a kind of orthodoxy in activist circles, issue atomicity is important if anything is to be achieved. The arguments towards ideological hypocrisy and contradictory viewpoints towards other issues needs to remain in the realm of philosophy.

Infant male circumcision is at it's root something that is completely dictated by cultural and religious norms. Anyone whom is from a culture that does not practice it will find it to be barbaric and strange. Anyone who is from a culture that does will find the practice to be normal to the point they don't question it. Walsh in this case being an American Catholic is of the latter persuasion most likely. And frankly won't see the parallels made as anything more than an attempt to sideline the argument. Indeed because the effects of infant male circumcision are so miniscule to be irrelevant in most cases barring the issues with botched circumcisions.

There's certainly an argument to be made against the practice, and I'm pretty firmly in the against camp here, but that's an argument for another place and time because it's frankly far less important an issue than just about everything else.

[–]Chipit[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

It's a deliberately obtuse take in an attempt to take away from the point being made. It's a bad faith argument.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm trying to strengthen Matt Walsh's argument, not take away from it.

His current views are inconsistent, and I'm not the only one who's noticed.

[–]Chipit[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The perfect is the enemy of the good. It's OK if we stand up against transing children.

You really, really come across strongly as having a bad faith argument.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Fair enough.

It's OK if we stand up against transing children.

I'm opposed to transing children. I don't know why you're saying this.

You really, really come across strongly as having a bad faith argument.

I've been honest with you. I've also been patient with you, after you've insulted me multiple times.

If you want to believe that I'm arguing in bad faith, there's nothing I can do about it. Matt Walsh is the one being openly hypocritical, though, so I don't understand how you can accuse me of bad faith but not acknowledge his.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I just want people to care about the millions of boys who have had their bodily autonomy/integrity violated by this nonsense.

Circumcision is not harmless. I don't believe the adverse effects have been properly studied. I have personally suffered a great deal of mental and physical anguish due to being circumcised. I don't appreciate you downplaying that aspect of it.

Transing children is worse, I agree, but circumcision is happening on a significantly larger scale. Regardless, it's not a competition. Both are harmful and unnecessary, and both can be challenged at the same time using the same arguments.

I made my original comment because this sort of moral inconsistency from people like Matt Walsh bothers me. If he had remained silent on the topic of circumcision, I would've assumed he opposed it. But now that I know he defends male genital mutilation, now that I know he probably mutilated his own sons' genitals, why on earth should I trust anything he has to say about other parents mutilating their children?

I'm not trying to "sideline the argument." I'm just disappointed.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I have personally suffered a great deal of mental and physical anguish due to being circumcised. I don't appreciate you downplaying that aspect of it.

It's not about you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I know. It's about:

the millions of boys who have had their bodily autonomy/integrity violated by this nonsense.

And the millions more who will be violated next year, and the year after that, and the year after that.

The damage to me is done. All I can do now is wait for opportunities to bring this issue to more people's attention.

The Rally to End Child Mutilation seemed like one of those opportunities. But maybe it's more about being anti-trans than pro-child? It's difficult not to think so when:

Matt Walsh opposes one form of child genital mutilation, but supports another.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The "rally to end child mutilation" is about transing kids. You can attempt to derail that by bringing circumcision into it if you wish

Should you wish to hold a separate rally about circumcision, I'll support you. But issues must be treated in an atomicistic manner if we are to see success.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Shouldn't it be called The Rally to End the Transing of Kids, then?

I would have zero problems with that.

But as it stands, The Rally to End Child Mutilation sounds like it should include circumcision. At the very least, I don't think people should be mad if I reach that conclusion based on the name.

I'm not trying to derail anything. I first heard about this rally on the intactivism subreddit. I couldn't share my opinion there because it's inexplicably pro-trans, so I came over here.

I can agree with your point about focusing on one issue at a time, that's probably the most efficient way. But I think it's fair to criticize Matt Walsh for using vague language like "child mutilation," when he only opposes one specific form of it and not all child mutilation.

If we are to see success, shouldn't we avoid contradicting ourselves?