To atheist of TiA,why do some atheist support the trans ideology when....

submitted by jacques1102 from (self.TumblrInAction)

the entire concept of someone being trapped inside the wrong body would refute naturalism?(nature is all there is.)From my experience with the trans movement,the entire premise is built around the concept of having a mystical conception of the brain,That there's this soul mismatch that causes one to experience feelings of being the opposite gender to their sex.The only acceptable remedy to the mismatch is to demand everyone else lie about reality.What i find bizarre about it is that these are the same atheist who question religions and the idea of a God(which don't get me wrong it's fine to question those things)but accept the belief that transgenders are truly who they say they are despite the fact that there's nothing in biology that really proves it.Even the famous "transgender brain" claim has been debunked.In 2019 nature posted that not only is there little difference between men and women's brains but also said differences are more physical not mental.(like men having larger brains,or women having stronger side to side connections.) https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-00677-x There's also this one from 2021. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210325115316.htm So why do some atheist support the trans movement if the concept would go against their beliefs?

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[–]clownworlddropout 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

I suspect it's a knee-jerk reaction to go against anything that might be considered conservative, frankly.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Correct, the modern Atheist trend is not one of true materialism, but rather a quasi-spiritualist movement that serves primarily as a counter to Judeo-Christian norms. As such it often just takes an antagonistic role. The modern Satanists are a great example of that.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's well within "Judeo-" norms.

[–]r2d2_21 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But satanists are not atheists, or what are you trying to imply?

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The people calling themselves satanists don't actually believe he exists. It's just a way to troll religious extremist christians.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The most visible modern Satanists movement. The church of Satan. Is an atheist movement. They say as much on their own website.

https://www.churchofsatan.com/faq-fundamental-beliefs/

[–]thethrowawayReddit refugee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are - theyre a type of athiest that hates the church and wants to remove christianity from society. They do radical protests and put up statues of satan to anger christians under the guise of religious freedom. They dont believe in God or satan, they just took the name to cause waves

Theres also theistic satanism that believes in satan and worships him and thats completely different and less common

[–]FourteenDigitz 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LeVayan Satanists are very much atheists who only symbolically use Satan to represent humanity’s free will

[–]FourteenDigitz 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There’s a reason I just vaguely call myself agnostic or areligious these days.

[–]Superprez 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Atheist is just the non belief in God. Nothing more, nothing less. Just because the religious strawman it to mean something else doesn't make.it true.

[–]LtGreenCo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Atheist used to simply mean a lack of belief in a god. That's it. It said nothing about your political leanings.

But then like circa 2007 it became a political movement somehow and as a result I distanced myself from the label.

These days if the topic comes up IRL I'll just call myself a "non-theist" to avoid the stigma.

[–]RedEyedWarriorThe Evil Cishomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They want to offend their parents.

[–]SneakyBishop 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'm atheist and think that trans ideology is nuts. Giving special rights and trying to change the structure of language in the name of inclusivity to people that are mentally ill is the opposite of progress. These people need counselling and reality, not hormones, surgery, and affirmation.

That is why I think I reject the ideology, it ignores fact, and having rejected religion for fact I find this movement just another ridiculous religion.

[–]jacques1102[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That's how i feel about the trans movement.It's just so bizarre to me the fact that people, who would in every other situation express scepticism, accept that not only is the proposition that there can be a mismatch between body and gendered soul and that one can know what it feels like to be the opposite sex.

[–]Datachost 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

There's a lot of crossover between the sceptics community and Atheist community (which makes sense) and in many ways they can be put into two camps. Those who are that way out of a genuinely held belief and those who are as a form of counterculture. It's not so much that they don't believe in God, or believe in a general sense of scepticism as healthy thought, but that in the early 00's their political opponents were often unquestioning Christian fundamentalists. Now that gender ideology is accepted amongst their tribe, that's what they believe.

Not to generalise, but there does seem to be something of a US/UK split there, which is why Dawkins has recently admitted to having read Material Girls and agreeing with it, he recognises all of this as just another religion (it's also why he's never been afraid to call out Islam or indigenous religions). I also firmly believe Christopher Hitchens would be calling this bullshit out too, were he still alive. Meanwhile a number of the US stalwarts of the sceptic community such as Dillahunty and P Z Myers have swallowed all of this without question, because essentially they're atheists only because that was the liberal position at the time (though as someone else has pointed out with Dillahunty there is likely another reason). Which isn't to say the UK scene has been without fault, there's barely been a peep from Ben Goldacre, a man who has always enjoyed calling out quack science.

[–]SneakyBishop 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those who are that way out of a genuinely held belief and those who are as a form of counterculture.

Good point. There are many that think of it as the counterculture position and because LGB and the T position are that way they think "hello friends!" when it should be "why do think you can be a woman?". Hitchens would be disappointed in how far we have fallen. If he could come back he'd say, "What have you been doing, I leave for five f*cking minutes....".

[–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What's "Material Girls"and is it a good book to read?

[–]Datachost 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Kathleen Stock's book. It basically argues why words like man and woman need meanings anchored in reality and delves into the philosophy of language, but in a way most people should be able to understand. I'd compare her to Paul Boghossian in terms of their views and how they express them

[–]SneakyBishop 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

and that one can know what it feels like to be the opposite sex

You hit on it right there perfectly. I've said somewhere else "I don't feel like a man, I am a man - there is no feeling involved because that would imply the experience of not feeling like a man."

[–]Datachost 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've always been baffled by "feeling like a man/woman". What does that mean? I'm a man, I don't feel like one. And someone who isn't a man, can't know what it means to feel like one, because they have no frame of reference for that experience. It's like someone who's blind from birth trying to understand colour, they have no way of knowing since it's not something they've ever experienced, so they have to fall back on stereotypes.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Something I noticed in the church growing up is that many devout people were easily able to point the rediculousness of other religious beliefs and the obvious grifting that was going on there, but we're totally blind to many of the same things in their own religious body or church.

To put it short, most people are hippocrates, I'm no exception. The Christian can't fathom why the Buddhist can be happy living without Jesus and so concludes what the Buddhist must actually be lying about being happy, while when they are unhappy themselves they know that the unhappiness must be because of Satanic influences on their lives so they tell themselves to ignore those and actually be happy. When you feel wrong about something it's either God speaking to you or Satan tempting you depending on what it is but you know the difference just cause.

These are just explanations to describe deeper human psychological mechanisms, these don't go away simply because someone chooses not to believe in a deity, our propensity to believe in illogical and rediculous things isn't something so easily disposed of, in many ways the Atheist who believes themselves immune to such things might be at a higher risk because they cannot admit to themselves that their beliefs might not be grounded in reason and logic.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To put it short, most people are hippocrates

First, do no harm.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol. We are all hippocrates the world is a better place for it.

[–]IMissPorn 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On a related note, why is it so hard for people to pluralize the word atheists?

[–]LyingSpirit472 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Most logical reason: Atheism and hedonism often go hand in hand. Atheism doesn't just go with "nature is all there is", but many atheists can go further and go into "if there is no afterlife to worry about, no heaven as a just reward for living a virtuous life, or no God to answer to and risk being punished for living a life of decadence, then all that matters is doing what makes me feel good now and not caring about the consequences.

The current genderspecial aspect of the trans movement and everything surrounding it is a movement steeped in hedonism at its core: the belief that you, personally, are the most special human being to ever live and that you, yourself, should get to live a life even the most disgustingly decadent emperors of Rome could only dream of where your every minor whim gets fulfilled immediately.

[–]ClassroomPast6178 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Atheism is just a statement about belief in a god or gods, there is no other linking philosophy. Making any statements about “what atheists believe”, unless it’s just “there are no gods”, is a nonsense. There are no doubt atheists that think the world is flat, that think gays are immoral and those that like to spend their weekends doing charity work and running classes for underprivileged children. There is no way to generalise about atheists, except those Atheist+ cunts, they probably do fuck goats.

Everything you have said sounds like a televangelist’s fever dream, after he’s just been caught in the midst of a 72 hour meth and rent boy binge.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Televangelists believe this yes, I wouldn't entirely say it's without connection though. While certainly there are atheists who are not hedonists, it's much easier to be a hedonist when you don't believe that god will eternally punish you for having sex out of wedlock or what not. Classic Psych 101 projection, the religious rules and beliefs of many devout christians do serve to keep their more base instincts in check and they do believe that if there is no god, then they would engage in such a hedonistic lifestyle themselves.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly, and as u/ClassroomPast6178 said, I do agree that not every atheist is necessarily a hedonist before. However, some atheists are hedonists, and considering how hedonistic the trans lifestyle is, that would be why.

It also doubles there since transgenderism can easily be connected to this atheistic belief ("if God was right, then God would have made me the gender I believe I am. If God did not, then I can't possibly be the problem, it just means God was wrong, and if God is fallable, then God is not God, ergo God would not exist.")

[–]meisthebigdumbTransracial BlackX Rockgender Bispecies 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know, I think it's fucking retarded.

[–]alladd 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i mean not to generalize but a lot of self-described "atheists" are actually still beholden to the same framework of religious thinking they claim to be free of because they were raised that way from birth so they still see the world as metaphysical and expect things like karmic reward, social balance, universally ordained morality etc.

they just insist it's not religion. it's "spirituality" or less, it doesn't even have a name and it's an a priori assumption. they're easily swayed from that neutral, non-committal state to other ideologies.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mistakes exist in nature. It is a dysfunction of a certain part of the brain.

[–]DocTam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Like most theological beliefs, many of the believers aren't strict about following all the tenets. Someone might not believe in God or Souls, but still imagine mental states as Souls. So the "atheist" person imagines "a woman's soul trapped in a mans body" but just drops the word "soul" to make it not conflict with their beliefs.

[–]jacques1102[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Which is bizarre because if our brains are nothing but sponges with chemical reactions then how a reaction determine someone is really a woman?I saw another post with a reddit comment from a trans person saying that their brain is telling them to give them hormones that their body doesn't produce.Yet why should we trust a chemical reaction?

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

One vocal atheist is literally going out with a trans woman and can't admit he is gay.

That's all it takes to drop reality.

[–]MarkJefferson 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Matt Dillahunty? I think he has some internalized homophobia which is being enabled by gender ideology.

[–]makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

These are the same types of people who would have been devout religious if religion was still in vogue. They have no problem ignoring logic or having contradictory ideas play out. The Trans argument is absolutely riddled with them, this should be in no way news to you.

[–]MarkJefferson 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think some people are predisposed to following some kind of ideology. And if they are in a religion and ever leave it, they'll eventually latch onto another religion like clockwork. So while they may be atheists, they won't be secular(non-religious). Frankly, I don't understand how it's like to never question one's own belief system. I think it's just how you're wired.

[–]dankenporti sexually identify as a mailbox 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i am atheist and anti-trans-rhetoric. they push onto people that being trans is "natural" and "scientific" but that couldn't be further from the truth. yes, some species can change sexes, like clownfish, but humans cannot, even with surgeries. any other gender besides male and female is made up bullshit. physical characteristics define gender: body parts, chromosomes and hormones. again clownfish change all that, humans do not. transgenderism in humans is unnatural and unscientific, and as an atheist i strongly believe in science and nature.