The actual fuck

submitted by meisthebigdumbTransracial BlackX Rockgender Bispecies from media.communities.win

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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

While I agree the tendency to turn a blind eye to the pedophilia issue is troubling, and the primary function of legal marriage is to provide a stable framework for the propagation and raising of children, and that the ease of legal divorce largely runs counter to that primacy, I still fail to see how extending the rights of marriage to cover monogamous same sex relationship harms society or had any negative effects in any way that aren't also shared by heterosexual relationships. I'm not sure the civil encouragement is at all conductive to improving the low birthrate but I see no issues with merely allowing it. Pedophiles are predators are not at all unique to the homosexual persuasion and it's frankly somewhat irrelevant when discussing matrimony itself. I also see few issues with extending adoption rights to gay couples as well provided that sufficient vetting is in place to weed out people who wish to adopt for the wrong reasons, however this again is also completely to be expected from straight relationships as well.

I'm certainly happy to entertain any solid arguments against gay marriage should they exist. But as of yet I've not encountered any compelling ones that aren't religious in nature.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

the primary function of legal marriage is to provide a stable framework for the propagation and raising of children

Which should include pro-natal subsidies, but it wouldn't make sense to extend those subsidies to same-sex couples.

I still fail to see how extending the rights of marriage to cover monogamous same sex relationship harms society or had any negative effects in any way that aren't also shared by heterosexual relationships.

Same-sex and opposide-sex relationships are hardly comparable because of how different their behavior is. Straight people don't have the fetish cultures and the weird zoonotic diseases that gays do. Gay marriage didn't prevent monkeypox, did it?

Pedophiles are predators are not at all unique to the homosexual persuasion

The point I would make here is that homosexuality should be considered a paraphilia, as it had been prior to 1974, and that paraphilias tend to cluster together within an individual. Historically, most "gay" relationships were between adult males and adolescent boys, and this pattern is typical still today. Homosexuality is equated with pederasty as often by homophobes as it is by homophiles (see the "Kevin Spacey defense" for one example). While it's certainly not the only reason one would become gay, the self-reported rates of childhood molestation by older males in gay men is disturbingly high (probably around 50%).

I also see few issues with extending adoption rights to gay couples as well provided that sufficient vetting is in place to weed out people who wish to adopt for the wrong reasons,

That last part is key. We can't have sufficient vetting, because that would be homophobic, and we have made it our civilization's existential purpose to stamp out homophobia (along with racism, sexism, etc.).

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Which should include pro-natal subsidies, but it wouldn't make sense to extend those subsidies to same-sex couples.

Agreed but it also makes little sense to extend those to any couples without children.

Same-sex and opposide-sex relationships are hardly comparable because of how different their behavior is. Straight people don't have the fetish cultures and the weird zoonotic diseases that gays do. Gay marriage didn't prevent monkeypox, did it?

The main issue is the production of children. Straight couples do indeed choose not to produce children and engage in various paraphilia as well, yet we as a society have little issue with allowing them marriage. I don't believe this is exclusively a homosexual issue.

The point I would make here is that homosexuality should be considered a paraphilia, as it had been prior to 1974, and that paraphilias tend to cluster together within an individual. Historically, most "gay" relationships were between adult males and adolescent boys, and this pattern is typical still today. Homosexuality is equated with pederasty as often by homophobes as it is by homophiles (see the "Kevin Spacey" defense for one example). While it's certainly not the only reason one would become gay, the self-reported rates of childhood molestation by older males in gay men is disturbingly high (probably around 50%).

This is definitely an elephant in the room nobody wishes to address. I think it's somewhat irrelevant to the question of legal marriage though. As that requires both parties to be well above the age of consent.

That last part is key. We can't have sufficient vetting, because that would be homophobic, and we have made it our civilization's existential purpose to stamp out homophobia (along with racism, sexism, etc.).

Agreed, the current culture is very much opposed to any kind of vetting or critical attitudes towards certain groups. This is also true towards straight couples as well though, even in conservative circles. I know people who adopted many children, and while typically adoption is something to be celebrated, people weren't always doing it for the right reasons. They were doing it for reasons of status within their religion organization oftentimes, oftentimes under the aspirations of converting as many children as possible. While I have no issues with religious people adopting and propogating their religion, theres a subtle but important difference between religious teaching, and cult like mentalities. The same exists within the gay community as far as I can tell. The activists are oftentimes insane, normal people are far more reasonable.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed but it also makes little sense to extend those to any couples without children.

My view is that subsidies on marriage alone can be used to encourage couples to have children. Something like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_loan

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting. Though I'm not sure you'll get much traction proposing 1930's era German reforms.

[–]Neo_Shadow_Lurker 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Straight people don't have the fetish cultures and the weird zoonotic diseases that gays do.

Oh my sweet summer child...

You're really innocent, aren't you?!

Historically, most "gay" relationships were between adult males and adolescent boys, and this pattern is typical still today.

Do you have any data on this?

You seem to be conflating homosexuality with pederasty, which is not only a clear demonstration of history illiteracy on your part, but also wrong.

Most pederasts were very affluent men who, surprise, were married to women and had children of their own.

And yes, most pederasts looked down upon men who engaged in adult same-sex relationships, with Plato and Phaedrus being two very famous examples of this.

On the straight side of things however, it's important to remember that child brides were a thing and still are even today on secluded, mostly rural areas. Hell, such practice was even endorsed by several religions thorough human history.

Oh wait, we don't talk about those because grown ass men wanting to fuck 14 year old girls is "trad", so yeah...

While it's certainly not the only reason one would become gay, the self-reported rates of childhood molestation by older males in gay men is disturbingly high (probably around 50%).

Sauce mothefucker, where is the sauce!

Never bring my pasta without the sauce!

The point I would make here is that homosexuality should be considered a paraphilia, as it had been prior to 1974, and that paraphilias tend to cluster together within an individual.

If that's your point, then you suck at it.