The no-downvotes and the moderation log are nice.

submitted by [deleted] from (self.SaidIt)

I've been seeing people comment about the voting scheme here. "It's so nice not to have to worry about downvotes!" "I think the dynamic is different here because of the lack of downvote, people feel more comfortable raising these kinds of topics." But also "Where's the downvote! This sucks I want to downvote stuff."

And people are using the moderation logs. It's really neat to be able to see the moderation actions on a live sub with a nontrivial amount of moderation. I feel like, well, there's a lot more moderation transparency. As intended. And it's neat to see other people use the logs too.

I just wanted to make this post, to say, it seems like these things are working mostly as intended. And they're having an effect, the intended effect probably. It's neat to see it in action, working. And to see people noticing. I hope it brings some satisfaction to the creators and admins to see it too.

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[–][deleted] 27 insightful - 3 fun27 insightful - 2 fun28 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I love it too. Magnora really learned from what worked well on Reddit and discarded what didn't. It is a noble effort.

"Where's the downvote! This sucks I want to downvote stuff."

So glad the mob doesn't get to shout out unpopular opinions. Every great idea, whether religious or technological, started with one person. The essence of freedom is to protect the minority, not on ethnic lines, but on an intellectual basis. In true service of freedom, each of us must protect the individual's capacity to hold an opinion contrary to every other person in the world.

And people are using the moderation logs. It's really neat to be able to see the moderation actions on a live sub with a nontrivial amount of moderation

What are the moderation logs?

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

What are the moderation logs?

The public moderation logs (they were private on reddit, so you never knew what was being removed until people made those moderation transparency sites like ceddit, etc). Like https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/about/log for this sub. (The link is next to the list of moderators in the sidebar of each sub)

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Oh its like public documentation of the moderation. Gotcha!

[–]NiceDickBro 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How dare they remove the beautiful prose of shitskinned_faggot

[–]PATGUI 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There is one thing I miss from the old reddit and it was upvote downvote ratio, they always said it was fuzzed but I don't buy that.

[–]Dragonerne 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It was fuzzed and they likely weighted people differently depending on their politics - likely at a logarithmic scale.

[–]Wahwah 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Indeed. I downvote the idea of having downvotes. The best thing and unique among the popular alternatives of Reddit is the lack of downvotes up here.

[–]goodknight 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I initially wanted down votes but it does feel nice not having to worry about getting them.

[–]emissch 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah the no down vote thing is nice. it actually holds people accountable if they feel that strongly about something they dislike. if they dislike it that much they will need to actually make the effort to comment and voice their opinion, not just do a drive-by low effort thumbs down.

[–]Trajan 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed. I show my disapproval by ignoring dumb posts. The ability to downvote is on the vast majority sites pitched as a judgement of quality, rating the post on what it adds to the conversation. The reality is that most people view downvotes as a way to indicate disagreement. That belief wouldn't be a problem if downvotes were not also tied to visibility of posts. Happy to see them absent from Saidit.

[–]Fleursdumal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A long time ago people used to only downvote trolls which I feel the is correct approach and it's also what's happening right now on ruqqus. At one point downvotes became about winning. Nobody would argue or share their opinion because they could just downvote and feel like they won. Now conversations are happening and I really hope we can get a larger variety of opinions

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    They used to show both (actually they allowed RES to access that data through the API) and then one day about 3 years ago they just decided to remove it entirely, for no reason. I think it was making bot and shill activity too obvious, and they wanted to cover that up because those are the people who send reddit money

    [–]anon674435569 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    Downvotes are toxic. People see a title they don't like or long text, and think nope I won't read that I'll just down vote. It wastes your time too all this clicking.

    The mod logs are good but they don't show deleted comment content so that reduces transperancy.

    [–][deleted]  (7 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Trajan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

      Yeah, that's a problem. The thing about deleted comments is that they are still be visible to the person who posted them, so they could quote them when alerting others to censorship. The problem then is that people can lie. The downside to making deleted posts visible is that there can be very good reasons to keep posts invisible (e.g. somebody posting content that would be a legal issue or present physical risk, such as doxing).

      I'm inclined to look at patterns. If somebody makes a habit of making insulting posts then it was probably deserved. If somebody has a decent history of posting, even if their views are contentious, then I'd be inclined to side with them.

      [–]theoracle 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      It is stupid that deleted comments can't be revealed by anyone. If there's legal issues or dox then you could make that separate and actually delete proper, but that is probably an issue for admins. Process could go mod selects option for illegal or dox, admin reviews, if it's wrong then there is repercussions for the mod.

      [–]bobbobbybob 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      /u/magnora7

      I like these ideas. Mods can only perma delete if they flag with 'CP' or 'pron' or whatever. Just name calling (my specialty) would leave the deleted content retroactively accessible.

      Would that be hard to do?

      [–]theoracle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I would like a check box/menu in the side bar to make moderated comments and posts, either of these options hidden, collapsed or revealed. These basic three options would be a start towards optional moderation. Let the readers choose what they want to see.

      [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah it's probably a 20 hour project to build in that functionality... I might start quoting the part they were banned for. I do that sometimes but I might do it more often. I believe removed comments are automatically minimized, so if I replied with the part that they were banned for in a quote in my comment replying to theirs, then that will let others see the offending text if they're curious.

      [–]Trajan 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Fair point. I’d buy that for a dollar.

      [–]theoracle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      If you haven't you can read about my ideas for a better platform.

      https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/52rx/attention_magnora7_my_ideasolution/

      https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/54cp/can_we_make_moderation_optional_can_we_have/

      https://ruqqus.com/post/tiz/optional-moderation

      A user on ruqqus proposed a tagging system which I think is good and I will make a post on it.

      [–]Chipit 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah, there are people used to reddit who love love love their ~cancel~ downvote button. They really miss being able to control and hurt others. Downvote you to oblivion! Make your posts hidden by default! Muhahahaha!

      Yeah that shit don't fly here. There literally isn't any code to do it. And the best part about it is it's going to drive away these ctrl-left losers.

      [–]DisgustResponse 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      I disagree. There's a reason why reddit has supplanted traditional forums and imageboards as the premier Internet discussion platform. And that reason is filtering.

      Say what you want about redditors, but the density of quality information is much higher on reddit than anywhere else. On a forum, I might have to dig through a 100-page thread to find what I want, or on 4chan, scroll past dozens of bait threads and shit posts before finding something worthwhile. That's a lot of extra time and mental energy.

      Downvoting is an integral part of filtering unwanted content. "But, it just means people will censor unpopular opinions!" To which I would respond that this should be proof that people, by and large, have a revealed preference for conformity.

      [–]Intuit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I love Reddit-style platforms because the presentation of comments is so dense and hierarchical, and there's grading of the comments.

      [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      bwahah.

      It used to be the premier discussion platform, and then the mechanisms, the votes, started being gamed, and then the upvote/downvotes hidden.

      saidit's solution is elegant. Don't like it? can't stop others enjoying it. A group of whiney control freaks can't downvote into oblivion, the only recourse is to post good content and get it upvoted to slide other content, a much more intensive procedure

      [–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

      The one thing I liked about Reddit was that under preferences you could select no email. I have already gotten a couple of ugly ones and I would rather not deal with them. Any chance that can be added?

      [–]reddugee 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      You can do this after you make the the comment. View your comments overview and below select “disable inbox replies”. You can view the response(s) and decide to comment. Muting responses is a big help to avoid the many argumentative, antagonistic and tiresome ones.

      [–]sproketboy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Hey I never noticed the moderation log. Very cool.

      [–]Intuit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      On another similar site with much more lenient free-speech, with tens of thousands of upvoats I've made to others' comments, I've only done a couple hundred downvoats. So about 1% down. Of my voats for submissions, a little more than half a percent weren't upvoats. So not a very essential feature.

      Technically it's the same. The point of the system is to allow a group effort at grading content so people with less time can focus on the best stuff. You don't need downvotes for this.

      [–]Evola 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Get rid of all up-votes and down-votes.

      [–]suckitreddit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Downvotes are dumb. When you go to vote for a politician do you get to downvote other politicians you don't like?

      [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I wish

      [–]Breadcacti 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I think no downvotes is good, but I think there should be just one like or upvote button. The funny insightful thing is honestly a bit confusing and not really good for all posts, some posts you want to upvote without saying it's funny or insightful.

      [–]galaxybrain 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Agreed. This is simply a better way.

      [–]Southbound06 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Agreed. On reddit you'd get run over by the downvote train once you get below 0 points.