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Meanwhile on Reddit: Morons Celebrate Blind Compliance
submitted 3 months ago by Questionable from np.reddit.com
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[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (14 children)
It's clear that you haven't studied, or even briefly looked at, the history of vaccines beyond the cartoon level, or you would know about:
RotaShield, the first rotavirus vaccine, which had to be withdrawn after a mere 112 cases of intussusception, an extremely dangerous and painful condition where the babies' intestines were twisted into knots.
The 1976 swine flu vaccine, hastily rushed out to prevent an influenza epidemic which never eventuated, caused a few hundred cases of Gullain-Barre syndrome, a debilitating auto-immune disorder that damages your nerves -- sometimes permanently.
That's just two uncontroversial examples of severely dangerous vaccines that came immediately to mind. You will note that both of these passed all their safety testing.
It is ironic that you mention the polio vaccine. The polio vaccine made by Cutter Labs gave 40,000 children polio, paralysed a few hundred, and killed ten. And separate to that incident, between 1955 and 1963, millions of doses of the polio vaccine -- about 20% of the doses made -- were contaminated with simian virus 40 (SV40), which has been linked to cancer. We have no idea how many tens or hundreds of thousands of cancers may have been caused by that vaccine.
Today, the west has abandoned the live-virus polio virus because of the risk of it causing polio. But because the live-virus vaccine is cheap, it is still forced on the developing world. Consequently, they have succeeded in almost wiping out wild polio but in Africa, India and parts of Asia, there are now more polio cases caused by the live-virus vaccine than by the wild virus. Conveniently for the profits of the drug companies, they are now vaccinating against polio cases caused by the vaccine.
I say forced because "preventing polio" is Number One in the list of priorities for westerners who control the money, like Bill Gates, but a much lower priority for the developing countries themselves. But because Gates controls so much of the process, that's just too bad for them.
Speaking of the Gates Foundation, the Foundation pushes poor African countries to buy the dangerous DTP (diphtheria tetanus pertussis) vaccine that has been banned in Europe and the USA, leading to the predicable health disaster: vaccinated children dying at almost ten times the rate of the unvaccinated for girls, four times for boys.
If you actually understood how vaccines work, you would know that Vaccine Enhanced Disease is a real threat. You would know that vaccination can drive the evolution of resistant strains. This seems to be a real threat in vaccination for Marek's Disease, a virulent cancer-like virus that infects chickens and turkeys. You would know that a vaccine that increases IgG4 antibodies will increase rather than decrease the number of infections, and immunologists don't really know why some vaccines switch to producing IgG4 antibodies after multiple doses.
You would also know that manufacturing vaccines can lead to contamination, like the 2010 case when Rotavirus vaccines were accidentally contaminated with porcine circovirus DNA. (Fortunately nobody seems to have been infected by it.)
Or the case where Moderna's covid vaccine in Japan was contaminated with fragments of rubber and razor-sharp shards of stainless steel. Until the Japanese government forced them to recall that batch, Moderna argued that this was perfectly safe because stainless steel is used in medical implants.
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (13 children)
Add to this the billions of examples where vaccines were improved and worked well.
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (12 children)
There aren't "billions" of infectious diseases that people get, there certainly aren't "billions" or even hundreds of vaccines, there are perhaps fifty or sixty.
And most of them do not work "well", if by well you mean the cartoon image of "safe and effective". Generally speaking, especially for the rarer diseases or those that aren't common in the west, the best we can hope for is that the balance of immunity vs adverse effects comes out on the positive side.
Vaccines are way more complicated and varied in their effects than the stupid cartoon version "vACciNEs GoOd!!!1!" vaxxists believe in.
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (11 children)
In a year, over 12.7 billion COVID vaccine doses were administered in 184 countrie, of which perhaps 12 caused potential problems, and have been the subject of study. That's an impressive success/failure rate.
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (5 children)
perhaps 12 caused potential problems
Oh come on. You're better than that. If you will believe that, I have a bridge to sell you, going cheap.
Australia's Theraputic Goods Administration (TGA) is aggressively pro-vaccine, and Australia one of the most heavily vaccinated countries in the world. The Australian government coerced the adult population into getting vaccinated: no vaccine, and you were prohibited from working. They allowed exemptions for people with a proven history of suffering anaphylactic reactions to vaccines, but no other exemptions. The TGA aggressively cracked down on doctors who prescribed Ivermectin and made it harder to get than addictive opioids. But even the TGA has admitted that in Australia alone there have been hundreds of severe adverse effects linked to the vaccines.
In October 2021 the TGA reported:
If just ten percent of these reports were confirmed, then in just over nine months there were nearly seven times more serious adverse effects in Australia alone than Bloomberg reported for the entire world in a year.
By the way, this is only a handful of the conditions which have been linked to Covid vaccines. There are others, including reactivating shingles and other viral infections. If you are surprised by this, and don't understand how it can happen, that's because you don't understand how vaccines work.
It is true that not all those reported cases of adverse effects are necessarily linked to the vaccine. But not all adverse effects are reported, not even serious ones. I know personally at least one case of a person who suffered a major cardiac event within hours of vaccination, one which almost killed him, and both the patient and his doctor refused to report it on the register because "it was just a coincidence". (This is an acquaintance of my mother.)
When it comes to pharmaceuticals, there are a lot of coincidence theorists.
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (3 children)
I'm of course exaggerating with the note of 12 cases. You've kindly provided the numbers for me.
Lets add up the TGA numbers: 788
Number of COVID vaccine doses administered in Australia: 143,110,000
Hence the likelihood of reporting a side effect after taking the vaccine is 1 in 18.034264 million.
Were the side effects due to pre-existing conditions? Were they due to allergies? Were the side effects treatable with blood thinners and other drugs? Were they temporary? Were they life threatening?
We can use Australia as an small example of the side effects of 12.7 billion doses. Historically vaccines obviously reduce the spread of viruses, by helping build immunity to the virus. There have been examples of side effects, but the likelyhood in Ausralia has been 1 in 18 million.
Thus if given a choice of spreading a serious virus that causes numerous problems and potentially death, or providing a helpful vaccine to reduce that spread, you know what's recommended.
Secondly, guess who benefits from spreading the anti-vax lies and misinformation? Not the 99%. Those lies only benefit those who want the virus to spread. The spreading of COVID helped numerous billionaires. Some of them helped pay for the heavily-funded anti-vax campaigns.
We've discussed this at length at Saidit. The anti-vax audience will not believe science. Getting them to believe anti-vax lies has been helpful in getting them believe many other lies, also promoted by the .01%. The problem we face is not a vaccine in this case. It's the spread of lies by the .01%.
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (2 children)
Lets add up the TGA numbers: 788 Number of COVID vaccine doses administered in Australia: 143,110,000
The link you give says 71 million not 143 million. Did you think I wouldn't click through to check? 😒
You are counting reported adverse effects in the first 9 months vs vaccine doses over four years. I'm used to the many ways that vaxxists try to cook the books by under-counting adverse effects, but that's just taking the piss.
spreading a serious virus that causes numerous problems and potentially death
All viruses that infect humans can potentially cause death. For the elderly, the common cold (rhinovirus) is more dangerous than the flu. I expect that other common cold viruses (at least four other coronaviruses, plus at least another 100 other adenoviruses, enteroviruses, parainfluenza viruses and RSV) probably behave the same way: more deadly to the old and infirm than to the young and healthy. I know, shocking, right?
The earliest, most dangerous strains of Covid had an Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of about 0.1%, which made it somewhat more dangerous than typical influenza epidemics. (And that figure may very well be an over-estimate, for various reasons I won't go into cough iatrogenic deaths cough over-counting cough.) Omicron has out-competed those strains and is nowhere nearly so dangerous. I expect it is now in the same class as the seasonal flu (IFR about 0.001%), with the greatest danger for the old and frail, like rhinoviruses.
We don't shut down society to avoid the flu. We shouldn't have shut down society for Covid. Sweden shows that targeted action to protect the most vulnerable was more effective than the mass lockdowns used by the rest of Europe, against all pre-2020 scientific advice.
It really is shocking how Covid came along and health departments, hospitals, doctors and medical "experts" immediately threw out all the hard-won knowledge we learned during the first SARS epidemic, and had to re-learn the exact same lessons over the dead bodies of people who didn't need to die. Sometimes incompetence really is indistinguishable from malice.
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (1 child)
These are part of Australia:
NSW 22,000,000 Victoria 18,500,000 Queensland 13,300,000 WA 7,600,000 SA 5,000,000 Tasmania 1,700,000 ACT 2,300,000 NT 654,100
If we focus only on 71k, you're still arguing for a teeny tiny incredibly rare incidence of potential temporary problems with a vaccine that's otherwise been successful in 99% of the cases without those side effects.
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (0 children)
Wait, what? Are you actually taking the total for Australia, and then adding the individual states to that total???
Well that would explain why you got a figure double the actual figure. You counted every state twice 😂 😂 😂
If we focus only on 71k
What 71 thousand?
You started by doubling the number of virus doses over four years and then tried to count only the adverse effects in nine months. Do you really not understand that you've left out 3+ years of side-effects? If you aren't willing to admit even that little, you are just as bad as Holocaust Deniers, Climate Change Deniers and Moon Landing Deniers.
That is the same as the Holocaust Denialist trick of counting only the number of Jews in Germany in 1939, which was something like ten thousand or so (by memory) and then saying "How could they have killed six million Jews?". It is precisely the same trick.
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - 3 months ago (4 children)
Until 2020, it was widely and uncontroversially accepted that the pharmaceutical industry was corrupt and rotten to the core. The media widely reported on how they push ineffective and even dangerous treatments, bribe doctors, lobby governments, essentially control most medical journals (close to 100% of all advertising in the journals comes from the top 10 pharma companies), and influence what papers get published and which don't.
The pharmaceutical industry is bigger than Big Oil: $1.5 trillion a year compared to about $1.4 trillion for the oil industry. You are rightly skeptical of Big Oil's propaganda but you swallow unconditionally Big Pharma's propaganda.
The corruption of medical science has been a scandal for decades, until it got memory-holed in 2020.
There is a revolving door between the regulators and the drug companies, vested interests decide what pharmaceutical products to recommend (e.g. the American CDC is part owner of the Moderna vaccine), and the regulators are almost entirely funded by the companies they're supposed to regulate. In the US I think it is about 70% of FDA funding comes from the drug companies. In Australia almost 100% of the TGA's funding comes from the drug companies.
And in dirty industry where the main players think nothing of selling HIV infected blood products and unsafe products, and deliberately manipulating drug trials to cover up the deaths of people, Pfizer is possibly the worst of the lot. Any fines they get are merely the cost of doing business.
Pfizer is so well known for their callous disregard of the law and patients' well-being that they are frequently used in studies of corporate ethics.
Almost one third of approved drugs have to be withdrawn due to poor safety, ineffectiveness or both. These are drugs that went through Stage 3 trials and were declared safe and effective, but weren't. And it takes an average of six years for approved drugs to be withdrawn. That's six years of very profitable sales while doing real harm.
And knowing just how hard it is to get the FDA to withdraw a drug if the drug companies object, we have to wonder how many of the other two thirds of approved drugs should have been withdrawn but weren't?
This is business as normal for the pharma cartels. The only difference with Covid was the unprecedented fear campaign and vaccine mandates. It's all about the benjamins. The drug cartels legally hooked millions of people on drugs which they knew were every bit as addictive as heroin for a mere few million dollars in profits, do you think they would hesitate for a second to sell useless, harmful vaccines for tens of billions?
We agree, corporations have been corrupt. Many of them, and their wealthy colleagues helped spread anti-vax disinformation. Big Pharma also benefited from that spread of lies about vaccines, which prolonged COVID cases and helped the virus mutate and spread further, requiring more vaccines. Almost all billionaires benefitted from the spread of COVID. Without the anti-vax lies, billions of others would have followed the appropriate scientific advice from day one: quarantine, social distance, wear masks, and take the vaccine.
Oh man, that is a wild take. So according to you, pharmaceutical companies are spreading anti-vax disinformation so as to boost sales of their vaccines 🤡
the appropriate scientific advice from day one: quarantine, social distance, wear masks, and take the vaccine.
How were they supposed to take the vaccine from "day one" when it took almost a year to develop vaccines (never mind whether they were effective or not) and then months longer to get production high enough for everyone? There were still vaccine shortages in 2022.
And let's not even mention the elephant in the room, Africa, where vaccine uptake was lowest in the world and Covid deaths also lowest. I really don't want to hear racist explanations about how Africans can't accurately identify and count the billions of Covid deaths they must have really had, but just recorded them as eaten by crocodiles or something 🙄
None of those non-pharmaceutical interventions had, or have, any scientific basis.
Mass lockdowns of the uninfected were unprecedented and there was, and still is, absolutely zero credible scientific evidence supporting such nationwide or citywide mass lockdowns. With the possible exception of China, no country had mass lockdowns as part of their epidemic response policy until it all suddenly changed in 2020 on the basis of idiotically unrealistic, and completely unverified, computer modelling.
Just a few months before the official start of the Covid pandemic, in 2019, the WHO published their recommended response policy for respiratory disease epidemics and pandemics which included:
Presumably they thought that nobody in their right mind would be so mad as to lock down entire countries, especially after lockdowns were tried during the 2015 Ebola outbreak in Sierra Leonne and failed miserably to halt the epidemic. There was no evidence that lockdowns slowed transmission of the disease, credible evidence that it increased transmission within overcrowded housing, and the lockdowns were a complete disaster socially and economically for the poor. Lockdowns are not an effective intervention even for managing a disease like Ebola, which spreads by contact with bodily fluids. If lockdowns don't help with Ebola, they have no chance of helping with a respiratory disease that spreads by air, and everyone paying attention knew it in 2020.
There really was no excuse for lockdowns. Everyone knew, or should have known, they are not effective, especially the scientists who said otherwise despite the complete lack of any evidence, and that they are disastrous for the poor. But the privileged laptop class gain all the benefit (work from home in their pajamas) and none of the costs, so we got lockdowns. The white collar middle class got a working holiday, the working class took all the risk or lost their jobs and their income because Fuck The Poor.
Social distancing is nonsense for an airborne respiratory virus. Social distancing was based on the pseudo-science theory that Covid is only spread by droplets, not aerosols like every other coronavirus, including SARS, so it was always junk science, and scientists knew that from January 2020, February 2020 at the latest if they were particularly slow of mind or had been stuck in the mountains of New Guinea with no internet connection since 2001.
The kindest thing we might say about them is that, until the virus was identified as a coronavirus, it might have been wishful thinking that it was only spread by droplets. But once they knew it was a coronavirus, there was never any justification for social distancing. Pure, 100% pseudoscience and superstition.
There is little credible evidence that social distancing and lockdowns reduced the spread of Covid significantly, and lots of good evidence that they didn't.
Masks. Oh boy. I could write twenty thousand words on the topic. But do you remember how, right at the beginning of the pandemic, Fauci publicly said not to buy masks because there was no scientific evidence that they worked to prevent diseases like Covid? That was probably the most honest thing he said during the entire pandemic.
I will grant this:
But at least cotton masks are biodegradable, unlike the hundreds of billions of surgical masks now polluting the planet and shedding microplastics into the environment.
Citations available on request. Not that I expect you will read them. You're all in favour of "the Science™" but not actual science.
Indeed, this is why the anti-vax lies have worked so well: there are millions like yourself who are absolutely concinved, to the point that you're willing to write essays that repeat those lies. And nothing I write about the science of virology will convince you otherwise. Moreover, you likely vote Republican because that's the party - not to mention Trump - promoting the anti-vax claims. You've been conned, but you'll repeat anti-vax lies until your dying breath rather than admit you've been conned. Instead, you'll claim that I'm the brainwashed one. Problem is: you can no longer distinguish fact from fiction, and I can no longer convince you of what facts are. That's eroding the American mind.
And nothing I write about the science of virology will convince you otherwise.
That's because what you know about the science of virology could be written on a grain of rice and still have room for the Gettysburg Address.
How about instead of trying to psychoanalyse why I believe what I believe, you focus on the actual scientific claims?
Let's start with an easy one. What is the Infection Fatality Rate (IFR) of Covid, and how does it compare to SARS?
you likely vote Republican ... That's eroding the American mind.
Ha ha ha he thinks I'm American 😂 😂 😂
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[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun - (14 children)
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (13 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (12 children)
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (11 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (5 children)
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (3 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (2 children)
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (1 child)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (0 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (4 children)
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (3 children)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (2 children)
[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (1 child)
[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun - (0 children)